Does it make sense to add genset to Leaf?

[Interleaf]

I could see a battery pack to carry or tow but a generator? No way.

Now this is an interesting idea.

The new Chinese 18650 Li-ion batteries are about $2.5 each in quantity and produce 3.3 Ah.

100 of these batteries in series will give you 360 volts and 1,200 Wh and will cost $250. It will weigh about 6 kg and take up 2 litres, not including packing material.

So build 20 of these modules and you have 24 KWh - so the Leaf range is doubled to 200 miles.

Cost = $5,000 which is less than a 8 KW genset plus trailer plus gas plus towing hitch plus insurance.
Weight = 120 kg - about 1.7 passengers.
Volume = 40 litres which is about a quarter of the trunk.

And then you carry this only when you are going long distance. The 18650 is already up to 4 Ah, and if it achieves 5 Ah this would be a hoot.

 

[Coffee_Slurry]

That's just the cells. Don't forget to add thermal sensing, battery management, safety features, casing, interconnects, and a charger. If you put four wheels and some seats on it, you have another Leaf, only without the subsidies and warranty.

Your best bet to do this without getting more complicated is to build an L3 "charger" out of the battery pack. When you want to move your power into the LEAF, you park, couple up, wait 30 minutes (or until the donor pack is drained) and drive off.

But yeah, it makes more sense than a gas-burning generator on a trailer for sure.

There is one company doing this in the form of "L3" trucks. Think AAA of the future.

 

[garygid]

Joke:

Just pull a 2nd LEAF, having it regen as you go.

Then, when the first LEAF is exhausted, swap,
using the re-charged LEAF fo continue the trip.

Since the battery on the 2nd one is always somewhat
to rather empty, it can take a lot of regen without
overheating, for long batery life.

Going up hill, only one would be working, and the
other on regen, so one would really only use a little
bit of energy going up.

Going down hill, BOTH would be in Regen, so one would
recover more energy than was used going up, so only
driving on the flat would really use any energy.

And, not a drop of gasoline, bad smell, AND,
extra cargo room!

 

[mikee322]

There was a great question that everybody missed .. What is the Battery Voltage of the Leaf ?

~350V nominal

AESC cells are nominal 3.6V. Four cells per module (14.4V nominal per module), 48 modules in the car (691.2V nominal)

But 691.2V nominal is over 800V at full charge - no way. It's looking like we have two modules in parallel (or two cells per module in parallel) or two independent parallel strings of 24 series modules. That gives us 345.6V nominal and a bit under 400V fully charged.

Guys ,I wouldn't dismiss the higher Voltage for 3 reasons.. First is. if u seen the video from Nissan on motor winding: that wire doesn't look like high current ... The second is efficiency will go up with higher voltages because of thinner wire (less current) and less heat in the semiconductors... From a Engineering point , it makes sense to have the higher voltage....

 

[AndyH]

We have the service manual now and can confirm that the nominal pack voltage is 350V.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2085

 

[derkraut]

Joke:

Just pull a 2nd LEAF, having it regen as you go.

Then, when the first LEAF is exhausted, swap,
using the re-charged LEAF fo continue the trip.

Since the battery on the 2nd one is always somewhat
to rather empty, it can take a lot of regen without
overheating, for long batery life.

Going up hill, only one would be working, and the
other on regen, so one would really only use a little
bit of energy going up.

Going down hill, BOTH would be in Regen, so one would
recover more energy than was used going up, so only
driving on the flat would really use any energy.

And, not a drop of gasoline, bad smell, AND,
extra cargo room!

Brilliant!! Brilliant!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

 

[solardude]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXVi-g4jWqI&feature=player_embedded

 

[Smidge204]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xXVi-g4jWqI&feature=player_embedded

See, normally the "put a generator in the trunk" is a stupid idea from an environmental viewpoint, because a gasoline generator would not have any of the pollution controls that a proper car engine would - making it considerably dirtier. But that guy is using propane, which is pretty genius. And clean. Propane burns very clean. :lol: And lots of places sell those kinds of propane tanks so it's not too difficult to get a refill. And he must be a hit at tailgate parties!

I can hardly wait to see someone rig up a home made gasifier and power their hybrid EV with wood!



(Click image for article)
=Smidge=

 

[smkettner]

I did not like the idea of the propane or generator in the passanger compartment

 

[kubel]

Joke:

Just pull a 2nd LEAF, having it regen as you go.

Then, when the first LEAF is exhausted, swap,
using the re-charged LEAF fo continue the trip.

Since the battery on the 2nd one is always somewhat
to rather empty, it can take a lot of regen without
overheating, for long batery life.

Going up hill, only one would be working, and the
other on regen, so one would really only use a little
bit of energy going up.

Going down hill, BOTH would be in Regen, so one would
recover more energy than was used going up, so only
driving on the flat would really use any energy.

And, not a drop of gasoline, bad smell, AND,
extra cargo room!

It may be funny, but you could use regenerative braking (or at least trick the car into thinking it is) and have a genset that's in tow dump power through the RB system. It would fix the issue of bypassing the no-charge-while-plugged-in safety feature.

 

[gadyamit]

We all know that in "normal" use 90 percent of the time we are driving on our battery range, driving clean. But if we want our EV to be first car in our family (not 2nd or 3rd) we must provide distance extender solution. The volt disadvantage is that you carry the engine with you all the time, Plus your battery will NOT last for a "normal" daily commute so you drive "LESS CLEAN" compare to a pure EV… Bottom line I like simplicity that come in a pure EV and I think hooking Gen is simple too.
Also we can share the trailer and make it a business…dropping the trailer need destination.

BTW I have a Hebrew blog on that subject http://www.go4ev.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (so if you can read Hebrew…) Just to explain the price of gas is Israel is about twice compare to the US and on top of that the Tax benefit in Israel is greater... My blog will be in English soon. The idea is to push for the EV solution, with the above solution for extra distance.

I would like to talk to Nissan people and see if we can get there technical support i.e. how to hook and charge while driving… Any idea?
Gad

 

[N952JL]

We all know that in "normal" use 90 percent of the time we are driving on our battery range, driving clean. But if we want our EV to be first car in our family (not 2nd or 3rd) we must provide distance extender solution. The volt disadvantage is that you carry the engine with you all the time, Plus your battery will NOT last for a "normal" daily commute so you drive "LESS CLEAN" compare to a pure EV… Bottom line I like simplicity that come in a pure EV and I think hooking Gen is simple too.
Also we can share the trailer and make it a business…dropping the trailer need destination.

BTW I have a Hebrew blog on that subject http://www.go4ev.com" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; (so if you can read Hebrew…) Just to explain the price of gas is Israel is about twice compare to the US and on top of that the Tax benefit in Israel is greater... My blog will be in English soon. The idea is to push for the EV solution, with the above solution for extra distance.

I would like to talk to Nissan people and see if we can get there technical support i.e. how to hook and charge while driving… Any idea?
Gad

Check out the Blandon micro jets: http://www.bladonjets.com/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;. He has a very small 5-25kw genset and a slightly larger 25-100kw genset powered from a small turbine.

 

[stevelapp]

it is not a solution for indefinte range, but 360 watts of pv on the car in southern califoria will give about 1.5 to maybe 2 kwh of charge on sunny days if configured correctly. i did this on my 2001 prius years ago and was able to get fuel econmy improvement on sunny days, not much use however in canadian winter. i don't have a leaf yet, as my 11 year old prius runs just fine, but am following the leaf tech. info, as it would be my idea for a modification. google "lapp pv prius" for pics of the modified prius. the pv energy was stored in lead acid batteries for current regulated delivery through a 12 to 300 volt dc/dc converter, imperfect but worked for a while. love the leaf!
cheers

 

[Stunt822]

regarding first posts on this thread - TomT , smkettner, Smidge204, Interleaf, EVDRIVER and other winers - why not just ignore thread if you can add NO value?

so much junk to scroll thru, unbeliveable.
Question was NOT if it makes sense! But HOW TO do it. If you dont' know - that doesn't mean it's impossible.
Focus when reading please and don't produce waste in the internet, isn't that is what you are after with driving EV?

 

[ebill3]

regarding first posts on this thread - TomT , smkettner, Smidge204, Interleaf, EVDRIVER and other winers - why not just ignore thread if you can add NO value?

so much junk to scroll thru, unbeliveable.
Question was NOT if it makes sense! But HOW TO do it. If you dont' know - that doesn't mean it's impossible.
Focus when reading please and don't produce waste in the internet, isn't that is what you are after with driving EV?

The obvious question: What of value have you added to this thread that has been dead for close to a year?

 

[planet4ever]

regarding first posts on this thread - TomT , smkettner, Smidge204, Interleaf, EVDRIVER and other winers - why not just ignore thread if you can add NO value?

so much junk to scroll thru, unbeliveable.
Question was NOT if it makes sense! But HOW TO do it. If you dont' know - that doesn't mean it's impossible.
Focus when reading please and don't produce waste in the internet, isn't that is what you are after with driving EV?

I beg to differ. If it doesn't make sense to do it, then any space and time spent on trying to figure out how to do it would be a total waste. It is a lot more productive to explain why it would be a waste to try.

Ray

 

[Stunt822]

my value - i hope you people will quite spamming with whatever offopic in future, and other people searching for informatin will waste less time filtering junk out.
(all 6 pages are junk relative to what topic title states)

6 pages of smart ass talk and ZERO on the topic.

Can someone rename this thread to "does it make sense to add genset to Leaf" please?

unbelieveabelly useless tread as it is


planet4ever - when you see topic asking for "why" or "should I do it" question - jump all over it please! but at least then I won't have to waste my time trying to filter thru because I was fooled by topic name, that came up in search.

ps With my leaf, even a 5 kW genset would make several long trips possible which will keep me happier Leafer, and keep me away from switching to Prius