Deciding to keep or trade-in 2011 Leaf @ 3 year ownership

[mxp]

We have a 2011 Leaf with (26k miles) arriving at the 3 yr old mark in July 2014.
The car's been great, the 12 bar range meets all our driving needs. And, it's been trouble-free all these years.
We bought the vehicle back in July 2011, total cost after fed/state/nissan incentives was $26k drive away.

My original plan was to reach the 3 yr mark, purchase the extended warranty (~$1000) and keep the car for good.
The Leaf Battery App currently shows: AHr= 56.05 (84.59%) Hlth= 81.75%
I will likely lose 1 bar by 2014 year's end. By 2017, losing 2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range.

I have not applied any sw update to the vehicle, not even that P3227 update. (Perhaps when I lose 1 bar, I will then apply that update)

There was a battery quality related class action suit in 2013 (also discussed in this forum), which I mailed in a letter declining my participation. I was under the impression that this would help me in the future, if I continue to lose more bars whilst I remain the original owner of the vehicle. Not sure whether this is true...

So, what shall I do? Just purchase the $1000 extended warranty and keep the 2011 model forever?

Thanks for any advice....

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

If it's not going to make your commute by 2017, then maybe wait until there's 150 mile LEAF, then switch. 2015?

 

[tivollix]

If the car can fits your needs I would keep it at least until the Leaf and Volt refresh.

Another interesting option would be to go for the battery rental program once the range becomes too limited for your use.

At 100$ per month, it could add usability for your car at a low cost: 3600$ for another 3 years, in a like new leaf (range), sounds like a good deal....

I am driving a 2011 too and missing 15% range too now. The car still fits my commuting needs.

 

[mwalsh]

With people being offered just $12k trade-in value, I think I would keep it until it simply didn't work for you anymore.

 

[greenleaf]

We have a 2011 Leaf with (26k miles) arriving at the 3 yr old mark in July 2014.
The car's been great, the 12 bar range meets all our driving needs. And, it's been trouble-free all these years.
We bought the vehicle back in July 2011, total cost after fed/state/nissan incentives was $26k drive away.

My original plan was to reach the 3 yr mark, purchase the extended warranty (~$1000) and keep the car for good.
The Leaf Battery App currently shows: AHr= 56.05 (84.59%) Hlth= 81.75%
I will likely lose 1 bar by 2014 year's end. By 2017, losing 2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range.

I have not applied any sw update to the vehicle, not even that P3227 update. (Perhaps when I lose 1 bar, I will then apply that update)

There was a battery quality related class action suit in 2013 (also discussed in this forum), which I mailed in a letter declining my participation. I was under the impression that this would help me in the future, if I continue to lose more bars whilst I remain the original owner of the vehicle. Not sure whether this is true...

So, what shall I do? Just purchase the $1000 extended warranty and keep the 2011 model forever?

Thanks for any advice....

I think we were both in the pre-order deal with Boardwalk. My calculation was that the drive-away price for the 2011 SL with Q/C was $24k. If you get a trade-in price of $12k, the cost of the "lease" is $12k over 3 years, or roughly $333 per month. This is not a bad price as leasing a SL at that time was $379 + tax + a $1999 down + other fees.

FWIW, I sold my 2011 SL/QC last month and switched to the 2014 Volt. I still drive gas-free everyday in my commute. If you want to do this, you need to do it fast because I predict the CVRP funds will be used up this month and the green HOV stickers would not last into summer.

 

[Graffi]

From an economic aspect, compare the Lease Buy-out price to how much you can sell it for, or how much it would cost to buy one in the same condition. From my perspective, I think I would keep a known condition vehicle rather than spend the same money to buy one of questionable condition.

We plan to do just that in 2016, then either trade it in for a MY2016, or keep it and still get a new MY2016 lease. We care for our vehicles as if we will keep them forever so we know when the lease is up ours will be in the best condition of any MY2013 SL Leaf out there so it will be a quality car.

 

[ttweed]

The Leaf Battery App currently shows: AHr= 56.05 (84.59%) Hlth= 81.75%
I will likely lose 1 bar by 2014 year's end. By 2017, losing 2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range.

I have not applied any sw update to the vehicle, not even that P3227 update. (Perhaps when I lose 1 bar, I will then apply that update)

I think you're closer to losing a CB than you think, possibly as soon as the weather warms up this summer. My 2011 lost the first bar at a little below 84% capacity, and it was also pre-P3227 update at that time. The second bar loss will come sooner than 2017 for you as well, I think, as it represents a much smaller increment of capacity (6% vs. 16%). My second bar went at around 78% capacity, after applying the P3227 update and getting a temporary bounce in reported capacity. If "2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range" then you may be facing that reality in 2015, not 2017. We don't have any fixed commute distance to achieve each day, and the car still meets our needs at its current 77% capacity, but I would be looking for charging solutions enroute or at work if I had to do 50 freeway miles each day right now.

Another interesting option would be to go for the battery rental program once the range becomes too limited for your use.

Is the SYB program still alive? I haven't heard any more details about it since the original announcement. There were definitely questionable aspects about it that bothered me as it was specified at that time. :shock:

TT

 

[edatoakrun]

We have a 2011 Leaf with (26k miles) arriving at the 3 yr old mark in July 2014.
The car's been great, the 12 bar range meets all our driving needs. And, it's been trouble-free all these years.
We bought the vehicle back in July 2011, total cost after fed/state/nissan incentives was $26k drive away.

My original plan was to reach the 3 yr mark, purchase the extended warranty (~$1000) and keep the car for good.
The Leaf Battery App currently shows: AHr= 56.05 (84.59%) Hlth= 81.75%
I will likely lose 1 bar by 2014 year's end. By 2017, losing 2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range...I have not applied...that P3227 update...

Wow, your already worried about your 2017 range?

Sounds like you are suffering from premature battery anxiety.

There is no evidence that the LBC data, either as displayed by bar loss or through any aftermarket device is consistently accurate as to battery degradation, or even as a measure of the current (and variable) available battery capacity that the LBC allows you to access between "100%" and shut down.

If it makes you feel any better, my LEAF with > 25k miles, shows AHr= 53.02 (80.03%) Hlth= 76.05% (also using the old app, pre-P3227) so I expect to lose my second bar in the near future, and my LEAF has lost no range since the Summer of 2011, as determined by multiple real-world tests, though I expect increased efficiency due to wear on my OE tires may be a significant factor in offsetting the actual loss of available battery capacity, whatever that may be.

Details:

Use CW report from range test to determine battery capacity

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=9064&start=30" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I'm not saying your app readings have as large an error as mine evidently have, just that you can not depend on your LEAFs LBC data to project your LEAFs future Available battery capacity and range.

I also am thinking about the extended warranty.

My LEAF has been to the dealer for repairs twice in ~34 months, for the (expensive, no doubt) nav CPU replacement in August 2012, and a 12 volt battery replacement last week.

Anyone know the dealers offering the best current price on the warranty?

 

[smkettner]

My range had been short for a year now. Too much charge management and too little get in and go.
Battery was losing capacity too fast to keep and too slow for warranty replacement.
Took the loss and leased a RAV4-EV. No regrets.

If your LEAF is working for you then you should keep it.

 

[walterbays]

Another interesting option would be to go for the battery rental program once the range becomes too limited for your use.

Not a bad option in this situation - a $100/month "car payment" to make your car "like new" while waiting for the improved batteries. And should Nissan feel the shame or feel competitive pressure in the meantime and change the program terms you'd almost surely benefit as well.

If your driving from Fremont is mostly East bay and North bay then a better option while waiting for the improved battery could be a $15/month eVgo subscription for quick charging. If your driving is mostly South bay and peninsula then you're out of luck.

 

[mwalsh]

^ You know, as I've sat of an evening pondering the Fiat 500e commercials for a $999 down /$99 mo. three year lease and getting rid of my LEAF, the $100 SYB program is starting to look a bit more palatable.

 

[CayenneSJLEAFy]

Wow, my situation is nearly the same as greenleaf's.

I initially leased my '11 LEAF at Boardwalk, and then bought it out 3 months later. Traded the LEAF in for a '14 Volt, but kept the upgraded EVSE (it works on the '14 Volt). The ever shrinking range was starting to make the daily commute uncomfortable, otherwise I would have kept the LEAF. I also don't want to wait until other lease returns further decimate resale values, or wait until the green stickers run out, or go through another summer purchase (wondering how long the EV/PHEV was left sitting on the dealer lot).

 

[LeftieBiker]

Given the relatively large number of problems with the 2013 leaf, I'd keep a dead-reliable 2011, and maybe look into the battery rental for it, *later on.*

 

[Valdemar]

Is the SYB program still alive?

I recently asked pretty much the same question on the Nissan Leaf facebook page after Nissan Social pointed someone curious to a 10 month old SYB press release. My comment got deleted. So I'm guessing not?

 

[mxp]

We have a 2011 Leaf with (26k miles) arriving at the 3 yr old mark in July 2014.
The car's been great, the 12 bar range meets all our driving needs. And, it's been trouble-free all these years.
We bought the vehicle back in July 2011, total cost after fed/state/nissan incentives was $26k drive away.

My original plan was to reach the 3 yr mark, purchase the extended warranty (~$1000) and keep the car for good.
The Leaf Battery App currently shows: AHr= 56.05 (84.59%) Hlth= 81.75%
I will likely lose 1 bar by 2014 year's end. By 2017, losing 2 bars total will cause us some grief in our commute range.

I have not applied any sw update to the vehicle, not even that P3227 update. (Perhaps when I lose 1 bar, I will then apply that update)

There was a battery quality related class action suit in 2013 (also discussed in this forum), which I mailed in a letter declining my participation. I was under the impression that this would help me in the future, if I continue to lose more bars whilst I remain the original owner of the vehicle. Not sure whether this is true...

So, what shall I do? Just purchase the $1000 extended warranty and keep the 2011 model forever?

Thanks for any advice....

I think we were both in the pre-order deal with Boardwalk. My calculation was that the drive-away price for the 2011 SL with Q/C was $24k. If you get a trade-in price of $12k, the cost of the "lease" is $12k over 3 years, or roughly $333 per month. This is not a bad price as leasing a SL at that time was $379 + tax + a $1999 down + other fees.

FWIW, I sold my 2011 SL/QC last month and switched to the 2014 Volt. I still drive gas-free everyday in my commute. If you want to do this, you need to do it fast because I predict the CVRP funds will be used up this month and the green HOV stickers would not last into summer.

Thanks to everyone who chime in with suggestions. I value all considerations. It will certainly help guide me in my decisions...

Hey greenleaf! Indeed, I remembered that we've acquired our Leafs about the same time! Congrats on your 2014 Volt and also getting the green HOV sticker. The Volt won't work for us because we needed a 3 seater in the rear.

And, the reason why we have ~$2.5k difference is simply because we missed the $5k CVRP by just 2 weeks! We watched the CVRP funds dwindle down to zero whilst our application was sitting in a pile at their office :-(

 

[mxp]

Given the relatively large number of problems with the 2013 leaf, I'd keep a dead-reliable 2011, and maybe look into the battery rental for it, *later on.*

Thanks for this particular data point. I haven't been keeping up with reading so I wasn't aware that MY2013's have lots of issues.

I recall, when purchasing the 2011 Leafs, one key point was "Made in Japan" and knowing that the Nissan Japan manufacturing team will surely want to ensure their first EVs rolling out for the American market would not disappoint. And, they did not disappoint in terms of reliabiliy. My previous vehicles were Audi's and their reliability was horrible.

 

[LeftieBiker]

While my 2013 SV hasn't shown any defects so far (other than maybe a not quite adjusted right rear hatch release), quite a few people are having problems with the climate control (especially with no or little heat), power distribution module, and axle bearings, IIRC.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^^
It seems like the heater problems aren't too rare on the '13. Mine still seems to be ok.

PDM? It seems like those problems have gone away given the 2 TSBs that were firmware updates. I still need to get NTB13-098 applied. I hit the exact symptoms listed in NTB13-069 and got that applied w/no charging probs since.

Axle bearings? Not hearing much of that.

Mine seems to have a few rattles: driver's side dash only when very cold and something on the passenger's side at low speeds (can't tell if it's suspension, something in the door or dash). I sometimes hear a slight pop sound from the rear (not sure if it's something loose) when accelerating from a stop. I need to take everything out of the trunk area to confirm that it isn't my stuff back there causing it. The car had none of these rattles or pops when new.

Other than that, IIRC, I've had no problems w/~7K miles, so far.

 

[DaveEV]

It seems to me that most of the issues (aside from the PDM issue which is resolved with a firmware fix) are related to the higher volume of sales of the LEAF, not necessarily that the '11-12 are more reliable.

 

[Stoaty]

It seems to me that most of the issues (aside from the PDM issue which is resolved with a firmware fix) are related to the higher volume of sales of the LEAF, not necessarily that the '11-12 are more reliable.

What about all the heater problems reported for the 2013 and later Leafs?