DBM - Kolibri

[LindsayNB]

http://wheels.blogs.nytimes.com/2011/04/07/new-test-appears-to-back-range-claim-for-battery/

The inspection organization Dekra has done independent tests for DBM and, once again, the pack seems as good as promised. In a press release, DBM said Dekra tested a 63 kilowatt-hour Kolibri battery, which uses lithium-metal-polymer battery cells, in an A2 on a chassis dynamometer. It found that the car was capable of traveling 455 kilometers, about 283 miles, on a single charge.

DBM also subjected some of the Kolibri’s cells to safety tests, this time conducted in January by the German Federal Institute for Materials Research and Testing, known as BAM. After the eight tests were completed, BAM said the cells “easily passed the entire range of tests” and confirmed that the Kolibri is safe enough to use in passenger and commercial vehicles.

 

[Herm]

Its not a surprise that a 63kwh pack would give you that range.. what I am interested in is the cost, and perhaps the weight. Such a large pack should last a long time since it wont be stressed by the usual 40 miles everyday commute.

 

[TLeaf]

Cost and size, definitely.. Nissan has plenty of room to work with in the trunk of the Leaf if they wanted to add more capacity to the battery. The only questions would be the $$$ and the affect on handling..

 

[EVDRIVER]

Cost and size, definitely.. Nissan has plenty of room to work with in the trunk of the Leaf if they wanted to add more capacity to the battery. The only questions would be the $$$ and the affect on handling..

And the added weight to beef up the car and the reduced efficiency, etc, etc. It's about density not pack size, anyone can jam a giant pack in an EV but that is not the solution unless you car is made entirely of carbon and the curb weight before the back is 600 lbs. Where is the story here?

 

[smkettner]

Batteries should not be rated in miles. Batteries needed to be rated by capacity, mass, volume and cost only. The rest of the vehicle drivetrain and accessories will be responsible for the actual miles.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Batteries should not be rated in miles. Batteries needed to be rated by capacity, mass, volume and cost only. The rest of the vehicle drivetrain and accessories will be responsible for the actual miles.

Exactly, you can put that pack in a rickshaw and get good miles..

 

[AndyH]

FYI...Here's the beginning of this story.

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=9&t=2638

 

[LindsayNB]

I believe the claim is that these batteries have much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery:

Looks like the future is here already – My Country man (the Germans) have accomplished a mile stone in Battery technology. 3 to 4 times the range with a 3rd less weight and size at half the price of current Lithium based Batteries, so called “KOLIBRI Lithium Metal Polymer Batteries”, check out this report:

http://sufiy.blogspot.com/2011/04/dbm-energy-kolibri-lithium-batteries.html

http://ralphmc.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/germany-engineering-is-making-headlines-again/

 

[evnow]

I believe the claim is that these batteries have much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery

And none of these have been verified by Dekra.

 

[Luft]

And the added weight to beef up the car and the reduced efficiency, etc, etc. It's about density not pack size, anyone can jam a giant pack in an EV but that is not the solution unless you car is made entirely of carbon and the curb weight before the back is 600 lbs. Where is the story here?

I read the article a couple of times and didn't find any information on size or weight. So I don't know if the density is higher than other battery packs or not. If it is then there is the story. If it isn't then there still is a story if...

— especially given some claims that the pack will cost thousands of dollars less than those from other battery companies

Well... here's hoping...

 

[ralphmc]

I believe the claim is that these batteries have much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery

And none of these have been verified by Dekra.

evnow - I have to beg to differ at your "statement" above - please find the below paragraph I have provided in German from the DBM Site:

Quote: "Ergänzend zu den Sicherheitstests der BAM führte die DEKRA in ihrem Test Center in Klettwitz am EuroSpeedway Lausitz einen unabhängigen Reichweitentest durch. In der Zeit vom 14. bis 18. März 2011 wurde die KOLIBRI Technologie der DBM Energy auf ihre Leistungsfähigkeit und Ausdauer überprüft. Grundlage für die Reichweitenermittlung des KOLIBRI Batteriesystems im Versuchsträger Audi A2 war die gesetzlich gültige ECE-R 101 Regelung zur Messung der elektrischen Reichweite mit Elektroantrieb betriebener Fahrzeuge."

And here the Confirmation of the claims made by DBM:

Quote: "Alle notwendigen Prüfergebnisse für die KOLIBRI Technologie konnten durch die DEKRA nachgewiesen werden. Darunter fallen Be- und Entladung der Batterie, Ermittlung des Fahrwiderstandes und der Maximalgeschwindigkeit sowie Untersuchung der allgemeinen technischen Sicherheit des Fahrzeuges. Trotz der geringeren Batteriekapazität schaffte das neu aufgebaute Elektrofahrzeug auf dem Rollenprüfstand nach ECE-R 101 eine Reichweite von 454,82 km. Der dabei ermittelte Wirkungsgrad der KOLIBRI Batterie lag bei 97 Prozent. Umgelegt auf die bei der Weltrekordfahrt genutzte Batteriekapazität von 98,8 kWh entspricht dies einer Laufleistung von 714 km."

This boils down to that the DEKRA has confirmed every aspect of the claims made by DBM!

http://www.dbm-energy.com/de/presse.html

Ralph

 

[AndyH]

Did I misread something, or was the performance 'verified' by examining a couple of cells? Considering the car and battery that supposedly set the record were destroyed by a mysterious fire after the drive...

I'll put more stock in the story once someone builds another complete battery and takes another drive. Until then, this smells too much like a fish story.

 

[Herm]

To save everyone the time, using google translate:

"In addition to the safety testing of the BAM led the DEKRA in its Test Center in Klettwitz at € Lausitz an independent range test. In the period from 14 to 18 March 2011 was the KOLIBRI technology DBM Energy tested for performance and endurance. Basis was to determine the range KOLIBRI battery system in the Audi A2, the experimental vehicle legally valid ECE-R 101 system for the measurement of the electric range with electric motor-powered vehicles. "

"All the necessary test results for the KOLIBRI technology could be demonstrated by DEKRA. This includes loading and discharging of the battery, determining the driving resistance and the maximum speed as well as examination of the general technical safety of the vehicle. Despite the smaller battery capacity managed the newly built electric vehicles in the Dynamometer to ECE-R 101 has a range of 454.82 km. This appraisal of the efficiency KOLIBRI battery was 97 percent. Applied to the used in the world record run of 98.8 kWh battery capacity corresponding to a mileage of 714 km. "

I still dont see any verification of the claims that these batteries have "much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery"

They probably stuck a very heavy set of expensive batteries in that car, what everyone else is doing.

 

[evnow]

I believe the claim is that these batteries have much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery

And none of these have been verified by Dekra.

evnow - I have to beg to differ at your "statement" above - please find the below paragraph I have provided in German from the DBM Site:

I don't see anywhere where they talk about "smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery". Where are you seeing these ?

 

[LindsayNB]

Perhaps naively, I thought that packing enough batteries into an A2 to provide hundreds of kilometers of range while preserving the four seats and trunk was a step up from what's been demonstrated to date. I admit to being an EV newbie. I can be as cynical about government as the next guy but it seems odd to me that the German government would be taken in completely by something like this.

 

[AndyH]

For Immediate Release: May 14, 1996
Contact: Karl E. Thidemann, tel 508-658-2231
Visit our website at http://www.solectria.com

Solectria Sunrise Sets New EV Range Record - Again

All-composite electric car travels 375 miles on a single charge

(Wilmington, MA) -- Solectria Corporation announced today that unofficial results indicate the Solectria Sunrise electric sedan powered by Ovonic Nickel-Metal Hydride batteries set a new electric vehicle range record by completing 375 miles on a single charge in the third day of racing in the 1996 NESEA American Tour de Sol, the national solar and electric vehicle (EV) championship. "This success proves to the world that clean zero emission vehicles can provide range and performance comparable to or better than that of a typical gas car," commented Solectria CEO James Worden, who is driving the Sunrise during the race. The Sunrise, entered in the race by the Northeast Alternative Vehicle Consortium (NAVC), the Boston Edison Company, and Solectria, completed 258 miles on a single charge yesterday during day two of this prestigious event. Today's new record represents greater than a 50% improvement over last year's record breaking run of 238 miles. A total of six electric vehicles produced by Solectria are competing in the eighth annual running of this road rally, which began in New York City on May 12th, and ends in Washington, DC on May 16th.

This race marks the second public competition of the Solectria Sunrise, a unique, full-size, four passenger, all-omposite sedan that promises to revolutionize the EV industry. The Sunrise was designed from the ground up to incorporate the latest advances in aerodynamics, material science, and Ovonic Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) battery technology. Funding for the Sunrise Project, an ongoing effort to provide efficient, safe, and affordable high-performance EVs to the marketplace, has been coordinated by the Boston-based NAVC, with co-funding by the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency, the Boston Edison Company, and other corporate partners.

A Solectria Force NiMH sedan entered in the race likewise turned in a superb performance, traveling 244 miles today on a single charge in mixed city/highway driving, edging out a Ford Ecostar which completed 227 miles. The Force NiMH also claimed the first pole position at the beginning of the race by winning an acceleration trial, beating the Ford EV which placed second. The Force NiMH sedan is the first commercially available EV equipped with state-of-the-art Nickel-Metal Hydride (NiMH) batteries produced by Ovonic Battery Company, a subsidiary of Energy Conversion Devices, Inc. [OTC-ENER]. "Just a few years ago, production EVs with a range over 100 miles were unheard of. Today, we are delivering these high- performance, long-range vehicles to customers throughout the United States, in Europe, and in Asia," stated Mark Dockser, vice president of planning and business development.

Four more Solectria Force sedans -- America's single most popular EV -- have been entered, and all did well today. A 1996 model owned by Jersey Central Power & Light traveled 129 miles on a single charge. A 1995 model owned by the Connecticut-based Rideshare Company went 141 miles, and a 1994 model owned by the Vermont Agency of Natural Resources covered 132 miles. Both of these latter two vehicles received support from the NAVC, and all three of these cars used lead acid batteries. A 1993 Force owned by the Virginia Power Company and entered by the Washington, DC based State and Territorial Air Pollution Program Administrators and the Association of Local Air Pollution Control Officials, traveled 107 miles on a single charge of its three-year old Nickel-Cadmium battery pack. "These achievements by our customers demonstrate beautifully the real-world capabilities of today's advanced EVs," observed Solectria president Anita Rajan. In addition to the NAVC, which is co-sponsoring three of the six Solectria vehicles entered in the race, other sponsors supporting Solectria's efforts in this event include the Boston Edison Company, the Goodyear Tire & Rubber Company, the Ovonic Battery Company, Sanoh Industrial Co., Ltd., and Quin-T Corporation.

With more than one million miles accumulated by over 200 Solectria electric vehicles produced since 1991, Solectria cars and trucks have proven to be the EVs of choice for public and corporate fleets throughout the U.S. and around
the world. The Solectria Force and Solectria E-10 electric pickup truck are the only production electric vehicles that have met the rigorous performance and safety standards set by the nationwide electric utility industry and U.S. Department of Energy coordinated EV America program. A leader in the EV industry, Solectria has pioneered many technological innovations in the manufacturing of advanced EVs and EV components, including all- electric air
conditioning and heating, and an automatic battery thermal management system to keep vehicle range consistent even in the worst winter conditions. Solectria EVs are now used by utilities, government agencies and private companies in thirty-five states and five foreign countries, and are widely recognized as the finest production EVs on the road.

A media event will take place at the Finish Line on the Mall at 3rd Street in Washington, DC on Thursday, May 16th from noon to 1 PM. Photos of Solectria's vehicles are available upon request, or may be found at http://www.solectria.com. The American Tour de Sol is organized annually by the Northeast Sustainable Energy Association (NESEA) of Greenfield, Massachusetts.

###
SOLECTRIA CORPORATION
68 INDUSTRIAL WAY
WILMINGTON, MA 01887
USA
508-658-2231
FAX 508-658-3224
Solectria Press Release - May 14, 1996

http://www.acterra.org/ev/archive/solectria_record.html
http://www.sunrise-ev.com/original.htm

 

[Googler]

I regard the Leaf as a commute car for a multi-car family, because the range is too limiting to serve as a general purpose car for most people. As such it makes sense to improve it in the following ways:
1. much less wind resistance to improve range, perhaps through dramatic styling.
2. why a 5-passenger vehicle for a commute car? Make it a much smaller and lighter car.
3. offer a 2-passenger, 2-door version.

 

[linkim]

I believe the claim is that these batteries have much higher capacity in a smaller, lighter and less expensive to produce battery:

Looks like the future is here already – My Country man (the Germans) have accomplished a mile stone in Battery technology. 3 to 4 times the range with a 3rd less weight and size at half the price of current Lithium based Batteries, so called “KOLIBRI Lithium Metal Polymer Batteries”, check out this report:

http://sufiy.blogspot.com/2011/04/dbm-energy-kolibri-lithium-batteries.html

http://ralphmc.wordpress.com/2011/04/07/germany-engineering-is-making-headlines-again/

The Li-metal polymer battery is not a new idea. HydroQuebec (HQ) initiated R&D on these types of batteries in the 1970-80s. Li metal will certainly yield much higher capacity in a battery than lithiated graphite in the anode. A major problem with the HQ polymer electrolyte is its low conductivity, and consequently, the HQ battery was tested at higher temperatures (i.e., 60C). Cycling of the Li electrode produced some problems with safety. Repetitive cycling caused an increased surface area (sometimes dendrite formation leading to short circuits) which enhanced chemical reactivity with the electrolyte. The major player in developing Li-metal polymer batteries, Avestor, went bankrupt.

If DBM has similar technology, then low cycle life and questionable safety, are problematic for EVs. IMO we need to see some more hard data before getting too excited.

 

[TRONZ]

I regard the Leaf as a commute car for a multi-car family, because the range is too limiting to serve as a general purpose car for most people. As such it makes sense to improve it in the following ways:
1. much less wind resistance to improve range, perhaps through dramatic styling.
2. why a 5-passenger vehicle for a commute car? Make it a much smaller and lighter car.
3. offer a 2-passenger, 2-door version.

Uuuummmm... This is the EsFlow.

 

[evnow]

Perhaps naively, I thought that packing enough batteries into an A2 to provide hundreds of kilometers of range while preserving the four seats and trunk was a step up from what's been demonstrated to date.

Did they preserve the trunc space ? I couldn't make out from the new photos (don't remember the old ones).

Even if we assume they have improved the volumetric density - it still doesn't say anything about the cost or the kwh/KG.