Daily Quick Charging - Thoughts?

[Ingineer]

Glenn, I'm sorry for making "assumptions". Unfortunately, You did not provide full information, so assumptions had to be made.

Still, I stand my earlier conclusion: If you don't need the QC, don't do it. There's many reasons not to, many of which have already been expressed. If you need the QC to make a trip, then do it. If the only reason you are doing it is because it's free and you are trying to avoid charging at home, then that's pretty low. (Especially with the relatively low-cost power you enjoy there)

-Phil

 

[glennr01]

I understand your point and agree. We're fine, Phil - if you read my original post, I never stated that I intended to actually use the QC daily as my sole source of charging. I was far more curious as to what might be the consequences of that strategy. Let's move on.

 

[Volusiano]

I read the original intent of the OP differently. I thought that he just wanted to discuss about the technical merits and demerits of charging everyday using a QC. Of course, this also has to factor in against the needs for convenience and maximum usability of the LEAF.

I don't think anybody in their right mind would want to waste 1/2 hour of their life sitting at a QC station waiting for a charge just to save a few bucks, when they could easily spend that 1/2 hour of their life at home doing something else more meaningful while their LEAF gets filled up at home overnight via their L2. I always assume that if somebody spends time at a QC station, that's because they need to. Not necessarily just for dire or important need to make it home, but it can simply be for convenient need just so they whip around and be back on the road again to maximize the use of their LEAF.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I don't think anybody in their right mind would want to waste 1/2 hour of their life sitting at a QC station waiting for a charge just to save a few bucks, when they could easily spend that 1/2 hour of their life at home doing something else...

Nobody? Gunna have to disagree with you on that, particularly with as many "thrifty" folks as there are who drive a LEAF.

 

[Ingineer]

Unfortunately, I've ran into people at QC's charging to "full" when they really only need a little charge to make their destination. Twice at the Belmont QC, I've pulled in to find someone there charging to "Full" even though when queried, they didn't need all of it. One of them told me "I might as well get all I can get since I'm here". I tried to convince him that the charge rate tapers quite a bit toward the end, and unless he needed it, it's silly to wait. He either didn't believe me, or didn't care. (I waited another 35 minutes for him to leave)

If there is someone waiting on me to finish a QC, I stop after 15 minutes or if I've got enough to get where I'm going, whichever happens first. Hopefully people like those two at Belmont are rare aberrations and we get more people willing to share this precious resource.

-Phil

 

[glennr01]

Glad this thread is getting back on track. Yes, I am curious about charging strategies & the implications of attempting total QC charging (which I am NOT intending to do). That said, I obviously have made use of the QC facility at Nissan's HQ and, oddly enough, made nice acquaintances with a couple of other Leaf owners. Everyone is very courteous, good conversation usually ensues & a sense of brand camaraderie is fostered. As mentioned earlier, Nissan is very hospitable and encourages the use of the vehicle chargers - we've been invited for coffee and use of their rest room facilities. The QC itself automatically disconnects at 90%, so charging to 100% of capacity is not possible. And none of the users I've encountered (myself included) charge beyond 80-ish%.

I'd suggest that some of the less pleasant episodes that others here have experienced are the exception. In person, virtually every Leaf owner I've met was helpful, generous and courteous - perhaps a regional thing. Or, as I mentioned before, more likely an enhanced infrastructure in our area - many charging options, again, many of them free.

 

[Volusiano]

The QC itself automatically disconnects at 90%, so charging to 100% of capacity is not possible.

I've needed to charge to 100% at a QC station once before for a 65 miles leg of a trip and I was pretty far away from home, so that's how I learned how much longer it took between 80-100%.

The QC by default disconnects at 90% QC reading (around 80% LEAF reading) even if you set it to 100% as long as your battery SOC is below 50% to begin with. But charging to 100% QC reading is possible if you really need it. If your battery SOC is above 50% when you begin charging, the QC will charge to 100% if you select 100%. If you really need to charge to 100% after it quits at 90% QC reading (80% LEAF reading), just start a new charging session after it stops at 90% QC reading.

 

[Volusiano]

Unfortunately, I've ran into people at QC's charging to "full" when they really only need a little charge to make their destination. Twice at the Belmont QC, I've pulled in to find someone there charging to "Full" even though when queried, they didn't need all of it. One of them told me "I might as well get all I can get since I'm here". I tried to convince him that the charge rate tapers quite a bit toward the end, and unless he needed it, it's silly to wait. He either didn't believe me, or didn't care. (I waited another 35 minutes for him to leave)

If there is someone waiting on me to finish a QC, I stop after 15 minutes or if I've got enough to get where I'm going, whichever happens first. Hopefully people like those two at Belmont are rare aberrations and we get more people willing to share this precious resource.

-Phil

Wow, now I can understand why you're sensitive to the issue.

It reminded me of a funny story I ran into. I was at a QC and was probably at around 50% charged up, which was probably good enough to get me home. So another LEAF owner pulled up next to me and began plugging in to the other port next to mine. I told him that I probably had enough charge already so I'll go ahead to disconnect mine so he could have his turn, because I knew that even if he plugged in, he was going to have to wait until I was done with mine because you can't have 2 simultaneous port charging at the same time.

He abruptly dismissed me in a "know-it-all" manner and said why, there's no need because his port will charge on it own. I tried to explain to him that despite having 2 ports, the QC will only charge sequentially, and the second one won't begin charging until the first one is done. He ignored what I said and just walked away with the CHAdeMO connector plugged into his LEAF. And by the way, this QC is at a mall and there's a clear sign that says "Unattended vehicle while charging is subject to being towed". But he left his vehicle unattended and went to the mall anyway, even though he was supposed to stay with the vehicle. So I was like "OK, suit yourself."

Shortly after he was gone, I got out to stop mine, even though it was not done charging yet, because I had enough to get home anyway and didn't want to wait around any longer. I took a peak over his side and guess what? He never even logged into the screen with an RFID card (it still said "Hello"). Then I noticed that his CHAdeMO connector was not even locked in to his LEAF's QC port (the handle was not pulled up in the lock position). I got a chuckle out of it about how Mr. Know-It-All here doesn't even have a clue about QC'ing and thought that it was just like plugging in a J1772 connector at home without doing anything else.

I didn't feel sorry one bit for the guy and just left. I could have used my own RFID card to start his charging session and lock up his CHAdeMO connector so it would begin charging his car. But the fact that he left it unattended when he was not supposed to so he could spend time inside the mall was enough to clear my conscience to just walk away. I figured I should mind my own business anyway and let him learn a lesson the hard way about learning how to use the QC properly anyway.

My wife ran into a similar situation at a different time when she pulled up to the same DCFC and there was another LEAF there plugged in for 100% charge but the owner was gone inside the mall shopping. So she had to wait a while until the other side was done for her turn.

I think they need to change the "Unattended vehicle while charging will be towed" sign bigger and move it right up front in-your-face style so people will heed it. Or maybe they still won't anyway.

 

[glennr01]

Am I detecting the beginnings of a trend - QC Rage?

 

[EVDRIVER]

For those that are not clear, in many cases right after 80% the temp does shoot up very fast so I would always recommend stoping at 80 or just before since the QC stations are not exact. You can't see this on the temp bars as the are not granular enough but I see it every time I charge on QC. I also see people charging to 100% at the QC station in Belmont when they don't need it, even holding up others for that little extra. Silly pack cookers

 

[LEAFfan]

This thread makes me wonder how the whole DCFC process works from the business point of view. The companies who put them at their places, what kind of subsidies do they get? What do they get out of it? How much of the electricity bill they're footing?

If Blink L2 stations already go on a charge fee model, why are still DCFC still free? I'm assuming that they're still free because the gov't is still footing the electricity bill for some further period, at which point a charge fee model will be put in place. But I doubt that all of these businesses that currently offer free charging are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They must be allowing it because somebody else (gov't?) is footing the electricity bills and not them.

All this talk about QC charging for free is about to change with Blink chargers. I received emails that said they are now gearing up to begin charging for it. So far, 3 of our QCs now have the software to start charging customers. Their $ .50/charge is just a test charge rate. They haven't said what the actual rate will be.

 

[Ingineer]

I'm all for a minimum of something like 10-20 cents a minute for QC'ing. It's billed per minute regardless of whether you are charging. This will greatly reduce the people hogging the site for a freebie.

-Phil

 

[DaveEV]

I'm all for a minimum of something like 10-20 cents a minute for QC'ing. It's billed per minute regardless of whether you are charging. This will greatly reduce the people hogging the site for a freebie.

Let's call it $0.25/minute to make the math easy. That comes out to $7.50 / 30 minutes which is what most of the QC stations are charging these days, anyway.

If you charge less, you'll probably have to base the charge fee based on both time and energy used, for example, $0.10/minute + $0.30 / kWh or something.

 

[edatoakrun]

I'm all for a minimum of something like 10-20 cents a minute for QC'ing. It's billed per minute regardless of whether you are charging. This will greatly reduce the people hogging the site for a freebie.

Let's call it $0.25/minute to make the math easy. That comes out to $7.50 / 30 minutes which is what most of the QC stations are charging these days, anyway.

If you charge less, you'll probably have to base the charge fee based on both time and energy used, for example, $0.10/minute + $0.30 / kWh or something.

Eventually, all DC sites will probably charge a time fee plus a kWh fee, reflecting the TOU costs for each component of the Fast-Charge premium service.

There will still be occasions when You may choose to charge past the point where your charge rate tapers off, such as when you are beyond the charge range from your destination, without any convenient charge site alternatives.

Other drivers should not have to wait, since there will be multiple DC chargers with multiple outlets, at each charge site.

Eventually...

 

[LEAFfan]

I'm all for a minimum of something like 10-20 cents a minute for QC'ing. It's billed per minute regardless of whether you are charging. This will greatly reduce the people hogging the site for a freebie.

Let's call it $0.25/minute to make the math easy. That comes out to $7.50 / 30 minutes which is what most of the QC stations are charging these days, anyway.

If you charge less, you'll probably have to base the charge fee based on both time and energy used, for example, $0.10/minute + $0.30 / kWh or something.

The GoE3 QCs are going to charge $5/full charge for LEAFs/IMiEVs and $12.50 for Teslas. We have one in AZ so far...almost midway to Tucson.

 

[glennr01]

I don't see the change-over from free that others are describing here. Aside from Nissan HQ (which will likely remain free), the other Level 2 free chargers are either local govt subsidized or underwritten by retail and hotel chains as an accommodation to their customers. The commercial Blink chargers in our area have always cost to charge.

 

[pepscae]

Very interesting to read how leaf’s owners argue with each other. How polite and educated are your comments on internet.
The day you will see the same nasty posting found on youtube you will know that the Leaf and other electric cars are finally mainstream.