glennr01
Active member
We have access to a Quick Charge station in the neighborhood. Any thoughts regarding daily charging to 90% of battery capacity vs. trickle charging to 80% or 100% of battery capacity?
Daily Quick Charging - Thoughts?
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Volusiano
Well-known member
How lucky you are! It depends on where you live. If your summer is hot, I wouldn't use the QC unless necessary. If your winter is cold, I wouldn't mind using it daily from low to 90% (90% SOC reading from the QC is around 80% reading from the LEAF), assuming it's free or will cost less than charging at home). Fall and spring, if the climate is moderate, my strategy would be to QC daily from low to 50% of QC SOC, which is faster than between 60% to 100%. That way you don't have to wait very long and won't overheat the battery. Then charge up from 50% to 80% at home.
davewill
Well-known member
I wouldn't do it unless I had to.
1. It's harder on the battery.
2. It's less convenient than overnight charging in my own garage.
3. It's probably lots more expensive than home charging.
Now, if you need a boost, or you live in an apartment and have no other way to charge, then go for it, although I'd limit charging to 80% if possible.
1. It's harder on the battery.
2. It's less convenient than overnight charging in my own garage.
3. It's probably lots more expensive than home charging.
Now, if you need a boost, or you live in an apartment and have no other way to charge, then go for it, although I'd limit charging to 80% if possible.
Volusiano
Well-known member
From my personal experience of using Blink DCFC stations, the QC charging rate slows down CONSIDERABLY between 80%-100%. The charging rates seem to come in Tiers. According to this website, the charging rate up to 50% SOC is 400-500 Wh/min, but above 50%, the charging rate goes down to about 200 Wh/minute. Compare this to L2 rate of about 50 Wh/min.EVDRIVER said:
If 0-80% charging takes about 25 minutes as advertised, 80%-100% can easily take another 20 minutes after the first 25 minutes (based on my personal experience).
I don't know what the rate is between 80%-100%, but if it takes 20 minutes to get from 80-100%, for sure it's not going at 400 Wh/min nor is it going at 200 Wh/min. I'm guessing it's going at around 80 Wh/min (compared to L2 of 50 Wh/min).
The point is that charging between 80-100% will be not at the normal QC rates of 400 nor 200 Wh/min. It's much slower (maybe 80 Wh/min?).
glennr01
Active member
Thanks for all the great answers. So the best strategy, assuming that use of the Quick Charger is cost-free, is to charge daily for the approx. 20 minutes it takes to get to 80%. The weather here is variable, chilly in winter, mild in spring and fall, hot most of the summer. And yes, the charge time to approx. 80% is very quick - 80% to 90% is equal to or longer than the initial 20% to 80% charge.
Ingineer
Well-known member
Even if it's "free", and even if it doesn't harm your car, doesn't mean it's a good idea to use it all the time. Your cost to charge at home is likely negligible, and if you routinely charge at the "free" QC, it may drive up the bill for whomever is paying it, then it could end up having a steep charge imposed, or worse; removed/disabled! Not to mention that you'd be "hogging" the spot in the event other drivers show up that actually may need the QC for an extended trip.
-Phil
-Phil
glennr01
Active member
Ingineer said:
The presumption that I am "hogging" a spot, not allowing other drivers that desperately need to QC for an extended trip is duly noted and, even though ludicrous in its proposition (seeing as you have no idea the circumstances of my use of the device, its location, the time of use, etc.), I'll entertain your post with the following thought - why would you speculate that an unused, available free charger would somehow or other be removed, disabled or even worse, have a steep charge imposed by simply following its intended use? I'm sure, in real life, you are a very nice, logical man who for some reason, was perturbed by my prior post enough to build this silly scenario, but please, rest assured that if I were to charge my car at any public charging station (paid or otherwise), I would address the situation with far more courtesy then you just provided to me in your missive.
Ingineer
Well-known member
This has already happened once in Southern California. The site owner got a steep bill and shut the unit off!glennr01 said:
Just because something is free, (or cheap) doesn't mean we should waste it. A century ago we found all this "free" stuff in the ground called crude oil. Lack of conservation has caused a lot of problems since then!
I'm saying leave the QC for the times you really need it, as someone is paying (possibly quite a lot) for the electricity, and it's far from free for them. It may well remain free to use longer if it's not abused.
-Phil
EdmondLeaf
Well-known member
Just enjoy your car, will be interesting to know what daily QC will do to the battery. I think one Leaf owner is using QC daily for short time in WA, in order to compete daily commute. You are so lucky having so many QC. There was discussion here a while ago that trickle charge was/is better for battery capacity retention that 240V charging.
glennr01
Active member
Phil, you are clearly barking up the wrong tree here. Again, your assumption that the privilege of using the QC is equal to abuse is ridiculously presumptive. If you've got a bigger issue to discuss (oil use, etc.), I'd save it for someone who cares to challenge you on your thoughts - I really don't. The QC charger is on Nissan's HQ premises - they not only encourage people to charge there, but offer coffee, restrooms, a lounge area, etc. If you sincerely think that Nissan will shut down it's complimentary QC charger exclusively due to my occasional use, give a holler over to their customer support and make your case. And the line for QC charging is very short at 11p or later...
Edmond, thanks for your recommendations. I'll alternate between QC, trickle charging and Level 2 charging.
Edmond, thanks for your recommendations. I'll alternate between QC, trickle charging and Level 2 charging.
TonyWilliams
Well-known member
davewill said:
1. It's harder on the battery.... but for a lease vehicle, we don't really care (that much)
2. It's less convenient than overnight charging in my own garage... unless you live in no garage apartments
3. It's probably lots more expensive than home charging.... unless the unit is free, or otherwise subsidized
Volusiano
Well-known member
This thread makes me wonder how the whole DCFC process works from the business point of view. The companies who put them at their places, what kind of subsidies do they get? What do they get out of it? How much of the electricity bill they're footing?
If Blink L2 stations already go on a charge fee model, why are still DCFC still free? I'm assuming that they're still free because the gov't is still footing the electricity bill for some further period, at which point a charge fee model will be put in place. But I doubt that all of these businesses that currently offer free charging are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They must be allowing it because somebody else (gov't?) is footing the electricity bills and not them.
If Blink L2 stations already go on a charge fee model, why are still DCFC still free? I'm assuming that they're still free because the gov't is still footing the electricity bill for some further period, at which point a charge fee model will be put in place. But I doubt that all of these businesses that currently offer free charging are doing it out of the goodness of their hearts. They must be allowing it because somebody else (gov't?) is footing the electricity bills and not them.
GRA
Well-known member
Or because it brings customers in who might otherwise go elsewhere, and is thus cheaper than advertising. After all, when was the last time you parked in a shopping mall with a dirt parking lot? That's $1-$2,000/space for leveling, paving and striping, drainage, landscaping, lighting, signage etc., but given the choice between walking in the rain or in windy conditions from your car on pavement or in mud/blowing dirt, which are you going to choose?Volusiano said:
I do think that 'free' QC will be too expensive for many years yet for many businesses to do it, aside from EV companies trying to prime the market, but L1 and L2, sure. If you're driving up U.S. 50 from Sacramento to South Lake Tahoe, need a charge and you have a choice of stopping at a restaurant that has a free EVSE versus one that doesn't, you'll go with the free EVSE (assuming the one with an EVSE isn't a pit and the other a gourmet delight). Eventually they all have EVSEs, and they'll have to find some other way to attract customers.
glennr01
Active member
I'd add that there are numerous Level 2 Blink (and others) in our area that are free of charge. Some are on local gov't property (municipal parking lots, court houses, city hall), some are in retail outlets parking lots (Whole Foods, Kohl's), some are next to chain hotels. I would assume that Nissan's local influence, coupled with the above mentioned "retail accommodation" & local gov't subsidies account for the extensive installation. Greater Nashville metro is a very good area to own a Leaf.
planet4ever
Well-known member
Cool it, Glenn. You are not going to make any friends by throwing undeserved nasty posts at Phil, who is probably the most valuable person on this board. He was not discourteous, and his points needed to be made. He had no way of knowing you were talking about the QC charger at Nissan HQ, but in fact that doesn't invalidate his comments. Nissan is trying to boost LEAF sales, but they may well decide at some point that giving away electricity is not a practical way to do that. If they realize that you are hitting them up for their freebie every day, they might decide that sooner rather than later. I'm sure they would much prefer to have many LEAFs use that charger occasionally rather than have a few very lucky locals hog - yes I said hog - it every day. Most of us pay for our fuel most of the time. You should too.glennr01 said:
Ray
abasile
Well-known member
As Phil and Ray pointed out, I think it comes down to "need". If the QC makes it possible to complete a drive that wouldn't otherwise have been possible, then by all means use it. For instance, if there were a QC near my home, I'd sometimes use it after getting home from work with a low battery, to enable our family to turn around and go somewhere else without an excessively long wait for an L2 charge. But I would definitely not use the QC, or any other "free" charging, when my own EVSE would suffice. Also, when I do use "free" charging, I try to thank someone who is at least partially responsible for the cost of providing that service.
glennr01
Active member
Ray, I appreciate your reprimand, and your unabashed desire to push this discussion to another level. I have no doubt that Phil is the most valuable person on this board, and that he needs you to defend him. That said, your condescending demeanor and self-righteous declaration (yes, I said self-righteous) still in no way represent what the original tone of what this discussion was about. If you and Phil wish to educate me by inferring that I am effectively hoarding energy, preventing others from using equipment, and in some way responsible for the downfall of the gratis use of QC's in an area you are both unfamiliar with, I suggest you aren't doing the job you intended.
The better play here would have been a bit less schooling, a bit less assumption, and a bit more courtesy. Cool enough for you Ray?
The better play here would have been a bit less schooling, a bit less assumption, and a bit more courtesy. Cool enough for you Ray?
glennr01
Active member
abasile said:
Agreed. And what sincerely is my last post on this matter, how you describe the use of this accommodation is exactly how I have and will use it. Thanks for your objectivity.
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