Compact Flourescent Lights

[saleem145]

Hello,

Is it worth swapping out my incandescents for CFLs or LEDs??

I hear these things do not last anywhere as long as advertized and some don't even last longer than incandescents.

Thanks,

Saleem

 

[Zythryn]

Depends on a lot of factors.
What is your goal?
How many lights do you have and how often are they on.

We have cfls that have been working for almost 6 years straight. We also have a couple out of about 25 that only lasted 2-3 years, the rest are still going strong.
Different manufacturers make different qualities bulbs.
Cfls work best when they are not in an enclosed fixture, heat can be an issue for them.
LEDs will last decades, they can cost more.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I've had poor results with CFLs. LEDs on the other hand have been going good so far.

If you have recessed lights, check out the Home Depot-labelled version of the CREE CR6. They started at $50, then $40, just recently cut to $35. The trim is integral and they are dimmable.

There are some other LED bulbs now under $10. IMO, LED is where things are headed.

 

[saleem145]

Hello,

How do these manufacturers know that there LEDs will last 20 years??

Do the energy savings warrant the higher cost?

Saleem

 

[adric22]

All I can say is that they just don't make them like they used to. When these things used to cost $15 a piece, I bought quite a few of them and they all lasted 7 or 8 years. But when they died I began to replace with these smaller, cheaper ones they have now. I have had several die within a few weeks of installing them, while others last 2-3 years.

But honestly, I love CFL for a different reason besides energy savings. I love the bright white light that they provide. That is, if you buy the ones with the "daylight" advertisement. I cannot stand warm-white as it makes everything in my home look yellow. The daylight color also helps me wake up in the morning as the blue receptors seem to indicate to the human brain that it is daytime, and incandescent light seems to lack blue in its color spectrum.

Sort of like some people buy electric cars for their environmental benefits, others just prefer the way they drive. Well, that is how I am on CFL. I like the color of light that you just can't get with incandescents. Oh and one other great benefit is the lack of heat. We have a lot of trouble keeping our homes here in Texas cool during the Summer. Having tons of little 60 watt heaters around the house don't help.

 

[ebill3]

I'll wait until the LEDs drop a bit more in price.

With CFLs, it depends on how they are used. They do not like frequent cycling. Kitchen ceiling spots are doing just fine, but they usually only see a couple of cycles a day. A couple of living room lamps normally see one cycle a day and are doing great. Four CFLs in a bath room see very frequent cycling and have not lasted. After the third set, I've gone back to incandescent. I would have done it sooner, but our previous power company was almost giving them away. Another bathroom with the same lights sees little use and the CFLs are fine, but starting to take longer to achieve maximum brightness.

Same is true of the tube fluorescents. Frequent cycling is bad.

 

[smkettner]

Is it worth it? Absolutely for CFL but they do not work well on dimmers. And yes I bought some designated as dimmable. Maybe a special dimmer switch is needed. Anyway for the few on a dimmer I went LED and love them but they are a bit pricy so the payback is longer. These are pretty much all can lights in the ceiling.

I do find a few CFLs do not last long and seem defective. (exchange them under warranty) Most last for many many hours of use. On/off does not seem to have nearly as much impact as I thought it would.

My CFLs have easily saved the full price 3 or 4 times the cost to purchase.

I have plenty that are 6 to 7 years old going stong and used every day if not switched 5+ times a day.
The 4' tubes in the garage seem to go a year or two max.

 

[bowthom]

Hello,
I concur that frequent cycling is bad. In the old days I trained everyone to turn lights off when leaving a room. When I switched to CFL they only lasted a few months, frequent cycling popped them. I'm in Oregon and prefer incandescent bulbs. They are cheaper, contain no hazardous materials and last around 3 years. They are also 100% efficient for 9 months of the year. I don't use recessed lighting because it requires more wattage to cover the same size room and I don't get the benefit of the heat. Besides I prefer reflected indirect light because it reduces shadows.

My .02

 

[bradbissell]

I have both cfl and LEDs in my house. Of all the cfls on the market ( i tried too many brands to count) I prefer the sylvania 3000k cfls, a slightly whiter white without being unnatural (daylight). I have both the home depot (ecosmart) cree cr6 LED downlighting mentioned above and sylvania LED spotlights in my kitchen. The LED bulbs I have are the Philips a19 12W bulbs (silver heatsink with yellow filters over the leds) sold at Home Depot for $12 each; a great choice for warm white bulbs. Recently I purchased some of the new Philips Lprize winning bulbs. These so far are the best "regular" bulb of the bunch ( matching the light quality of the CR6s) and are indistinguishable from a regular incandescent bulb. These have a CRI (color rendering index) of 92 which is very close to an incandedent bulbs CRI of 100, (vs 80 for cfl).

Overall they do save money, it will take a few years to payback, but the monthly electric bill is noticibly less compared to regular bulbs. Also a nice side effect is that the bulbs emit very little heat and do not heat up the room during the summer.

 

[adric22]

I would also like to interject that anyone who expects to see a big drop in their electric bill has been very misguided. For most people, especially people who have electric heat in their homes, 95% of their electric bill comes from stuff like A/C, heat, hot water heater, refrigerator, and electric clothes dryer. So you can probably expect replacing all of your bulbs to save you about $5 per month on electricity. Over a year that works out to $60 per year or $180 over the course of 3 years which is the expected lifespan of most of these cheap CFLs.

 

[cwerdna]

I would also like to interject that anyone who expects to see a big drop in their electric bill has been very misguided. For most people, especially people who have electric heat in their homes, 95% of their electric bill comes from stuff like A/C, heat, hot water heater, refrigerator, and electric clothes dryer. So you can probably expect replacing all of your bulbs to save you about $5 per month on electricity. Over a year that works out to $60 per year or $180 over the course of 3 years which is the expected lifespan of most of these cheap CFLs.

FWIW, I have no central electric heat (it's natural gas; but do have electric space heaters), no AC (other than a portable 1-room rolling AC unit that's almost never used) and a natural gas water heater.

Electricity in CA is way more expensive than TX.

Incadescents are very inefficient. A few months ago replaced 10 candelabra incadescents totaling ~400 watts w/a combination of 1 LED + a few CFLs, totaling <50 watts.

My most recent electricity bill covering 10/12/12 to 11/9/12 was $36.31 for 268 kwh. Even though I was under my joke of a baseline of 325 kwh, my cost was 13.5 cents/kwh. Try plugging in your monthly electric use into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/the 95136 zip, gas and no for CARE to see what I mean.

When I switched to CFL they only lasted a few months, frequent cycling popped them. I'm in Oregon and prefer incandescent bulbs. They are cheaper, contain no hazardous materials and last around 3 years.

FWIW, re: hazardous substances, http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a comparison of mercury from running CFLs vs. incandescent. I will grant you that your area use gets way more electricity from hydroelectric and way less from coal than the national average.

 

[bowthom]

I would also like to interject that anyone who expects to see a big drop in their electric bill has been very misguided. For most people, especially people who have electric heat in their homes, 95% of their electric bill comes from stuff like A/C, heat, hot water heater, refrigerator, and electric clothes dryer. So you can probably expect replacing all of your bulbs to save you about $5 per month on electricity. Over a year that works out to $60 per year or $180 over the course of 3 years which is the expected lifespan of most of these cheap CFLs.

FWIW, I have no central electric heat (it's natural gas; but do have electric space heaters), no AC (other than a portable 1-room rolling AC unit that's almost never used) and a natural gas water heater.

Electricity in CA is way more expensive than TX.

Incadescents are very inefficient. A few months ago replaced 10 candelabra incadescents totaling ~400 watts w/a combination of 1 LED + a few CFLs, totaling <50 watts.

My most recent electricity bill covering 10/12/12 to 11/9/12 was $36.31 for 268 kwh. Even though I was under my joke of a baseline of 325 kwh, my cost was 13.5 cents/kwh. Try plugging in your monthly electric use into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/the 95136 zip, gas and no for CARE to see what I mean.

When I switched to CFL they only lasted a few months, frequent cycling popped them. I'm in Oregon and prefer incandescent bulbs. They are cheaper, contain no hazardous materials and last around 3 years.

FWIW, re: hazardous substances, http://www.energystar.gov/ia/partners/promotions/change_light/downloads/Fact_Sheet_Mercury.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; has a comparison of mercury from running CFLs vs. incandescent. I will grant you that your area use gets way more electricity from hydroelectric and way less from coal than the national average.

Yes we do and it also means I use less oil to heat my house. So overall in my area I think incandescent works best (IMHO). I use 50% less water & heating oil and 25% less electricity than the city average including charging my Leaf.

 

[LTLFTcomposite]

I did a back-of-the-envelope calculation a while back that at 11 cents/kWh (what we pay here) one watt running continuously costs about $1 per year. So a 65w hi-hat bulb, left on 24x7, would cost $65/year to run. Of course they aren't on all the time, but in some rooms like the kitchen they might easily be on 6-8 hours/day. So the CR6's that use less than 10 watts (I measured them at about 4 watts when dimmed a little, but who knows how accurate that was), saving 50 watts over the incandescent. I figure they will offset their additional cost in electric savings in about two years... IF they are reliable and don't crap out... which the phillips dimmable CFL hi hat bulbs did, after about a year. Totally unreliable, big waste of money at $13/bulb. Not to mention you can't just chuck them, you have to find a super secure toxic waste dump.

Here in Florida where the A/C is on 9 months a year, the way I figure it, you pay twice for the electricity on incandescents, once for the light, and again for the A/C to suck the heat back out.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Here in CA, one can frequently find non-dimmable CFLs for ~$1/bulb or so, I think in part due to PG&E subsidies. $2/bulb or so isn't hard to find, unless one's going for very high wattage ones (over 27 watts). Candelabra-base CFLs are also more expensive. CFLs greater than 27 watts, dimmable or 3-way bulbs are quite pricey (e.g. 32 or 33-watt CFL at lowes.com is ~$11).

 

[AndyH]

Hello,

How do these manufacturers know that there LEDs will last 20 years??

Do the energy savings warrant the higher cost?

Saleem

LED's have been around since the 1950s - they've got a very good track record.

 

[Pipcecil]

Technically if you get the life span out of them they will end up being more efficient and cost savings versus CFL. But the higher upfront cost usually turns people off (tee hee).

But, that said, consider it like a new tech gadget when purchasing (if you consider the long road it has been for LEDs to get to a usable bulb for a household, its really a tech breakthrough) - i.e. you get what you pay for. Going with cheaper/knockoff/no-name brands resulted in lower lumens, poor light color, and shorter life (in my experience). Philips really has been the leader here and, to me, its worth the price mark-up for a better bulb.

Compared to CFLs, if you get the newer L-Prize winner bulbs LED you get a small decrease it wattage (9.5 vs 13/14), better lumens (940 vs mid 800's - fyi a standard 60 watt incandent is around 900), and better color light (unless you really prefer the yellow light). Currently only the philips LEDs 60watt replacements compared to other 60 watt LED replacement can produce enough lumens to equal what a standard CFL or incandescent can (last time I checked). Be careful when you buy! I would regularly see "60 watt replacement!" on packages only to flip it over and see lumen output @ 600 lumens (thats almost a 40 watt incandescent).

 

[ksnogas2112]

Just be careful.

I didn't research/read about LED's enough and put one in an enclosed globe in the hall. When the kids left it on all night the heat couldn't dissipate and it started to smolder. Fortunately the smoke alarm next to it went off. When I woke up there was no sign of fire but a smoke smell I couldn't find. I was looking right at the globe when I saw smoke leaking out and then it flashed into fire. The flipside of being in a globe was the smoke from the flash killed the flame but it was still quite hot to touch. Fire department showed up and ran an IR sweep of the area to ensure there were no remaining hotspots.

 

[LEAFer]

Just an off handed comment. What I have not understood about the LEDs is the HUGE heatsink required. I mean, come on, they are supposed to be so energy efficient, saving you money. Then why would they emit so much heat as to cause the above (nearly catastrophic) problem ? Ok, I've been told the heatsink is there to keep the LED cool because they don't like heat and last longer that way. Hmmm. Ok. But causing smoldering and just about a fire when enclosed ??!!! What's up with that. Not knowing the details, I'll still assume that the smoldering LED was a fraction in wattage of what the incandescent bulb used to be. Would the (higher rated) incandescent have caused that fire ? My guess is no.

 

[garsh]

I've had too many ballasts go bad on CFL bulbs.

I now purchase all of my CFL bulbs from Costco. When they go bad, I keep them. When I collect enough bad ones, I take them back to Costco and they replace them with new ones for free.

 

[Stanton]

I've had too many ballasts go bad on CFL bulbs.

I now purchase all of my CFL bulbs from Costco. When they go bad, I keep them. When I collect enough bad ones, I take them back to Costco and they replace them with new ones for free.

Smart guy: never thought a retailer would do that.
I have gone through the incandescent->CFL transition in high-use areas (bedrooms, bathrooms) and will probably move to LED in the next transition. Like others, I've found the CFL's don't last as long as advertised while I've had very good luck with a couple of (expensive) LEDs I've placed in hard-to-get (outdoor) locations that stay on all night, etc. Since I did my CFL transition all at once a couple of years ago, I did notice a slight drop in my electric bill. Of course, that was more than wiped out by my EV :lol: