Cold Weather Nature of Li=ion battery

[BEVeedom]

I bought a Lithium Ion battery to start my motorcycle. I had to rethink things when I went to start it on a sunny but cold day coming out of winter here in Maryland. I went back to the company for some understanding. This guy says it best:

http://www.ballisticparts.com/tech/faq.php

Watch the video titled:

Cold Starting Characteristics of LiFePO4 Batteries.

Isn't that interesting?

With that thinking then, why would it be any different with the Nissan Leaf? If I briskly accelerate up to speed at the full 80KW at first opportunity one time in a cold battery, cold weather start situation could it stand to reason that, even at the expense of the short but large waste of energy, that overall range would increase due to the quicker warming of the battery and decrease of internal battery resistance as opposed to driving strictly for range right from the start? I'll test it out in these last few weeks of cold weather.

At any rate, we should "unlearn" our common knowledge & experiences with the traditional lead acid battery when thinking Li-ion.

 

[TonyWilliams]

Cold Starting Characteristics of LiFePO4 Batteries.

At any rate, we should "unlearn" our common knowledge & experiences with the traditional lead acid battery when thinking Li-ion.

First, the battery in the LEAF is not LiFePO4. Second, I don't think many folks are confusing lead acid with lithium, although it does pop up occasionally with NiCad thoughts (needs full discharges to counter battery "memory" which doesn't apply to lithium batteries).

Finally, why waste the energy to warm the battery? It won't warm the battery as fast as just charging it at a high SOC just before you leave.

If you have power to charge the battery, you have power to heat the battery. A simple silicone pad heater on the bottom of the battery and plugged into the wall will do it. When somebody finds the CAN message that turns on the six 50 watt heaters in the battery, you'll be able to send it a message to heat the battery with the equipment already on board.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

When somebody finds the CAN message that turns on the six 50 watt heaters in the battery, you'll be able to send it a message to heat the battery with the equipment already on board.

If this actually increases capacity, maybe someone has already done so? Sounds like it would be easy enough to find out with a CAN reader and a car in a cold climate...

 

[BEVeedom]

The point here is not about how you dope your lithium, it's about new thinking as we adapt in an ICE to BEV world. I'm looking for allies here and this is not California. I have heard stories of folks hoarding Edison bulbs and think that lithium is for mental issues.

What I saw in the video goes against any battery experience I have had. He basically threw a big screwdriver across the battery terminals for a few seconds, waited a minute, and did it again. Each time the battery got stronger. A new experience. I'm going to put my 80KW screwdriver across my battery on a cold morning right from the driveway. That's a second new experience. I would never do that in an ICE car. Makes for the start of a good day anyway I think.

 

[TonyWilliams]

When somebody finds the CAN message that turns on the six 50 watt heaters in the battery, you'll be able to send it a message to heat the battery with the equipment already on board.

If this actually increases capacity, maybe someone has already done so? Sounds like it would be easy enough to find out with a CAN reader and a car in a cold climate...

Yes, relatively easy to find, I suspect, if you have convenient cold weather at -4F/-20C weather to test in. Unfortunately, the folks who like to dig into the CAN messages are not in cold areas.

At -20C, the battery is 20% down on energy, or with a new battery, or about 4.2kWh missing of 21kWh available at +20C. I don't know how much energy it would take to actually heat and maintain +20C or higher with the uninsulated battery and the six 50 watt heaters, but like any of the temperature controlled batteries, I suspect it will work fine, particularly if the battery is "preconditioned" while plugged in.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I'm looking for allies here and this is not California. I have heard stories of folks hoarding Edison bulbs and think that lithium is for mental issues.

I honestly don't know what exactly you need "allies" for, or where "here" is (but apparently not California.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

[
Yes, relatively easy to find, I suspect, if you have convenient cold weather at -4F/-20C weather to test in. Unfortunately, the folks who like to dig into the CAN messages are not in cold areas.

I'm not sure why you assume that there is nobody in a cold area who would be interested in digging into CAN messages, although empirically it might seem to be true, since nobody has come forward with this information. Unfortunately, we're just past the months where many people would have weather at -4F/-20C.

At -20C, the battery is 20% down on energy, or with a new battery, or about 4.2kWh missing of 21kWh available at +20C. I don't know how much energy it would take to actually heat and maintain +20C or higher with the uninsulated battery and the six 50 watt heaters, but like any of the temperature controlled batteries, I suspect it will work fine, particularly if the battery is "preconditioned" while plugged in.

I guess I would be more interested in the heat to maintain the battery temp, since ideally you would precondition the battery off the grid, rather than from stored energy. 4.2kWh is a significant number - it would add about 10 miles of winter range for me (yes, I average about 2.5miles/kWh with the heater running). Without the heater, that's more like 15 miles.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm looking for allies here and this is not California. I have heard stories of folks hoarding Edison bulbs and think that lithium is for mental issues.

I honestly don't know what exactly you need "allies" for, or where "here" is (but apparently not California.

LOL! If only the location field were mandatory...

 

[RegGuheert]

LOL! If only the location field were mandatory...

I often find myself wondering..."Does cwerdna wish the location field was mandatory?"