Cold weather losses?
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minispeed
Well-known member
Have you checked your tire pressure? You could lose up to 9 psi before most tire pressure warning lights will come on (not sure what the leaf is set to). Usually with colder temps you will lose pressure. If you really want the most range make sure you pump them up to at least 44psi cold. You could probably go higher for the winter as the max cold pressure makes an assumption that it will be safe to have 44psi cold on a super hot day and drive 65+mph. You'd be in the same safety range at a higher cold PSI in the winter. What that is I don't know but I think 50psi would still be safe. Some previous testing on insights showed that there was little benefit in mpg after about 50psi (they went as high as 70). This is assuming you have the ecopias, if you have other tires you may be able to to 51psi max any time.
Are you on the same tires as before or do you have winters on? Most winters will have way more rolling resistance, exception is the Xice and Nokians.
You keep mentioning the GOM miles, you should know they are worthless. You can't do your drive home, or to work look at the GOM then go test it on a different drive and compare.
I'm guessing that your drive to work is uphill and against the prevailing winds. As mentioned before the air is denser, hence more of it to push out of the way when it's colder, 20+ winds as you mentioned before are a lot. That means that you driving at your mentioned speed of 35 could see aero drag the same as a 55mph car without wind. That also means when you come back against the wind you see less aero drag, as low as 15 over the car. This is how you can get a day with a 6 degree temp shift and a trip there at 3.3 and a trip back at 1.8.
To truely test the way temp is changing your range you have to pick days with similar winds (speed and direction, 0 would be best) and drive from one point and return to that point. Reset your avg speed each time and record it at intervals along the route, try to get the 2nd run to hit the same avg at the same intervals. It would probably be best to use a simple 4 right turn route, take avg speed half way along each straight section and at each turn. Then compare the battery % used for the whole trip. Ignore all other gauges and try to drive a route where you can always keep a good distance behind any other car. You can also do the same to test the hit wind has on range if you do the same on 2 days with the same temp but different winds. You would also have to pay attention to battery temp too. A day that is 55 degrees out followed by a morning at 32 will have a different starting battery temp than a morning at 32 with a previous cold day. A morning test with cold temps will warm up the battery so if it then warmed up and you did another test the same day you'd be starting with a warmer battery than a morning at that same temp.
Also your preheating of 1 to 2 hrs sounds excessive. I find it only really takes 30 min to get the car up to a nice temp.
Are you on the same tires as before or do you have winters on? Most winters will have way more rolling resistance, exception is the Xice and Nokians.
You keep mentioning the GOM miles, you should know they are worthless. You can't do your drive home, or to work look at the GOM then go test it on a different drive and compare.
I'm guessing that your drive to work is uphill and against the prevailing winds. As mentioned before the air is denser, hence more of it to push out of the way when it's colder, 20+ winds as you mentioned before are a lot. That means that you driving at your mentioned speed of 35 could see aero drag the same as a 55mph car without wind. That also means when you come back against the wind you see less aero drag, as low as 15 over the car. This is how you can get a day with a 6 degree temp shift and a trip there at 3.3 and a trip back at 1.8.
To truely test the way temp is changing your range you have to pick days with similar winds (speed and direction, 0 would be best) and drive from one point and return to that point. Reset your avg speed each time and record it at intervals along the route, try to get the 2nd run to hit the same avg at the same intervals. It would probably be best to use a simple 4 right turn route, take avg speed half way along each straight section and at each turn. Then compare the battery % used for the whole trip. Ignore all other gauges and try to drive a route where you can always keep a good distance behind any other car. You can also do the same to test the hit wind has on range if you do the same on 2 days with the same temp but different winds. You would also have to pay attention to battery temp too. A day that is 55 degrees out followed by a morning at 32 will have a different starting battery temp than a morning at 32 with a previous cold day. A morning test with cold temps will warm up the battery so if it then warmed up and you did another test the same day you'd be starting with a warmer battery than a morning at that same temp.
Also your preheating of 1 to 2 hrs sounds excessive. I find it only really takes 30 min to get the car up to a nice temp.
rogersleaf
Well-known member
Based on my recent experience this is about right. Last week had a morning commute at 34* into a stiff headwind, the 38* return in the afternoon. Probably went through 95+% of the battery (well into VLBW, no turtle but did get the "---" on both the GOM and % battery gauge. Got off the expressway and ran back roads to minimize distance & speeds). Using nice weather as the benchmark, would take @ 80% battery and maybe into LBW. That's where your 20+ miles of range went.nerys said:
minispeed
Well-known member
donald said:
Also how long does it stay at a drop above 20? Maybe it's just the heater pulling 5kw (shoot I hope I used the right unit LOL) to get it up to temp. From what you have written it doesn't sound like you are driving with the heater on for extended periods of time. I think that the car would be pulling that initial load but after the fluid and the interior are up to temp the load will drop a lot and thus the hit to the GOM will also drop. To actually take 25 miles off of your range you would need the heater to pull that load for the full trip.
I know it's not apples to apples since I have a 2015 and havn't driven below -3C yet but the highest I've seen the GOM drop on start up is -16km, after driving 1/3 of the way it was around -6km and by the end with 30% battery it was -2ish.
First its pedantic to argue about it. It is inconsequential and not confusing unless you intentially make it confusing. Kind of like the difference between there and their since the words are 100% of the time contextual so it is impossible to be confused or misread as they are not defined by spelling. Ever they are defined by context.
Second. I have do e it that way for 30 years. So it n is not goi by to change rapidly as it only changes wjen inconsciously think about it.
Second. I have do e it that way for 30 years. So it n is not goi by to change rapidly as it only changes wjen inconsciously think about it.
Nubo
Well-known member
minispeed said:
I dont use the heater because of how much power it consumes.
I do delivery so i would see that power spike every delivery
I wont call it ac any longer that term is too confusing. Ac is cold heat is hot.
Ac takes a lot less power than heat.
When doing local driving i use the heat (it is fantastic btw good heater)
But going to work or delivering zero heat. I use an indoor propane heater.
Cant afford the energy usage.
I have not used the heat on a work day ever. Just because of the range drop.
My gom overall is surprisingly accurate once i get below 17kwh in the battery. Above that its pure fiction i average around 4.2 to 4.5 m per kw delivering. So i set leaf a spy to 4 and the gom jives surprisingly accurately with it.
There are "elevation changes" but i wont call the hills. Starting and ending elevations are within 10ft of each other. So no real "hills"
Max speed delivering is usually 35 maybe 40 on some roads
Max speed on the long haul to egg harbor is 50mph 45mph if i am worried about capacity. Average speed probably around 30mph.
No. I will not even attempt to give one crap about kw versus KW. Not worth it to me. I am trying to use kwh properly but case is your problem if that bugs you. Too much a pain on the mobile.
I do delivery so i would see that power spike every delivery
I wont call it ac any longer that term is too confusing. Ac is cold heat is hot.
Ac takes a lot less power than heat.
When doing local driving i use the heat (it is fantastic btw good heater)
But going to work or delivering zero heat. I use an indoor propane heater.
Cant afford the energy usage.
I have not used the heat on a work day ever. Just because of the range drop.
My gom overall is surprisingly accurate once i get below 17kwh in the battery. Above that its pure fiction
i average around 4.2 to 4.5 m per kw delivering. So i set leaf a spy to 4 and the gom jives surprisingly accurately with it.There are "elevation changes" but i wont call the hills. Starting and ending elevations are within 10ft of each other. So no real "hills"
Max speed delivering is usually 35 maybe 40 on some roads
Max speed on the long haul to egg harbor is 50mph 45mph if i am worried about capacity. Average speed probably around 30mph.
No. I will not even attempt to give one crap about kw versus KW. Not worth it to me. I am trying to use kwh properly but case is your problem if that bugs you. Too much a pain on the mobile.
ok got some colder data and a run dead data byte too. I imagine this is already known but I have not found it yet so just in case.
Took a shot coming to work 21' !!
preheated the car. left with 18.5kwhr indicated
arrived with 3kwhr remaining but I used the heater the last 15 to 18 miles. so estimate 5kwhr reserve
at first it was not so bad. the car is VERY well sealed. I guess I got a lot more benefit from the preheat than I thought. when we stopped at wawa on the way in and got back in the car it was SERIOUSLY cold. I guess opening up and letting out the warmth was a bad idea
anyway when I get their 2.9kwhr indicated I figured. hey. might as well see what happens when I deplete it. so i roved up and down the street till I got to VLBW with the heater blasting.
LBW happened at 2.9kwhr VLBW happened at 1.9 kwhr
turtle happened at .4kwhr (sitting in parking space with heater going) .3kwhr ???*** turtle died.
interesting NOTHING turned off except the drive train bits (power steering 12v battery light came on etc.. ie as if you turned on while plugged in not "all the way on" mode.
radio still worked and heater still worked fine. I figure ok lets see how low it can go.
.3kwhr ????*** car died (drive train turned off the above described non ready to move mode)
the ???*** is because I don't know when this "actually" happened as leaf spy stopped getting or interpretting data from the car. I noticed this when it did not drop below .3kwhr and the watt hour meter did not keep going up. it "froze" at its last value. I reset it to zero and still it remained at "zero" not counting anything even though I clearly was using power (heater still going etc..)
so something odd happened. I was curious if I could "get to 0" in leaf spy. answer no. .4kwhr is the drop dead value.
I turned off the car at this point fearing damaging the battery and plugged it in.
I estimate I could get 12 t 16 miles out of it in theory once it goes --- based on 3m/kw conservative estimate and the kwhr remaining according to leaf spy.
Turtle? enough distance to pull over. That's it.
so. at least I know chilly but intact I can make it to work 53 miles away at 21'
Took a shot coming to work 21' !!
preheated the car. left with 18.5kwhr indicated
arrived with 3kwhr remaining but I used the heater the last 15 to 18 miles. so estimate 5kwhr reserve
at first it was not so bad. the car is VERY well sealed. I guess I got a lot more benefit from the preheat than I thought. when we stopped at wawa on the way in and got back in the car it was SERIOUSLY cold. I guess opening up and letting out the warmth was a bad idea
anyway when I get their 2.9kwhr indicated I figured. hey. might as well see what happens when I deplete it. so i roved up and down the street till I got to VLBW with the heater blasting.
LBW happened at 2.9kwhr VLBW happened at 1.9 kwhr
turtle happened at .4kwhr (sitting in parking space with heater going) .3kwhr ???*** turtle died.
interesting NOTHING turned off except the drive train bits (power steering 12v battery light came on etc.. ie as if you turned on while plugged in not "all the way on" mode.
radio still worked and heater still worked fine. I figure ok lets see how low it can go.
.3kwhr ????*** car died (drive train turned off the above described non ready to move mode)
the ???*** is because I don't know when this "actually" happened as leaf spy stopped getting or interpretting data from the car. I noticed this when it did not drop below .3kwhr and the watt hour meter did not keep going up. it "froze" at its last value. I reset it to zero and still it remained at "zero" not counting anything even though I clearly was using power (heater still going etc..)
so something odd happened. I was curious if I could "get to 0" in leaf spy. answer no. .4kwhr is the drop dead value.
I turned off the car at this point fearing damaging the battery and plugged it in.
I estimate I could get 12 t 16 miles out of it in theory once it goes --- based on 3m/kw conservative estimate and the kwhr remaining according to leaf spy.
Turtle? enough distance to pull over. That's it.
so. at least I know chilly but intact I can make it to work 53 miles away at 21'
Coldest trip tonight. 8' out!!
man was it freaking cold. full hot charge preheat for 1 hour then left.
I used the propane heat for this trip as I dared not use car heat. alas had to crack the window to prevent "as much" fogging the spit did not work so well tonight (probably too cold when I applied it) or maybe it was just too cold it was like frost more than mist on the windscreen. maybe it does not work with ice
so had to use defrost every 5-10 minutes or so. just a few seconds each time to clear it.
last 10 miles shivering I turned on the heater as I had plenty of range left. using heat blasting last 10 miles made it home with 1.8kwh usable remaining (not counting the .5kwh cut off point)
man was it freaking cold. full hot charge preheat for 1 hour then left.
I used the propane heat for this trip as I dared not use car heat. alas had to crack the window to prevent "as much" fogging the spit did not work so well tonight (probably too cold when I applied it) or maybe it was just too cold it was like frost more than mist on the windscreen. maybe it does not work with ice
so had to use defrost every 5-10 minutes or so. just a few seconds each time to clear it.
last 10 miles shivering I turned on the heater as I had plenty of range left. using heat blasting last 10 miles made it home with 1.8kwh usable remaining (not counting the .5kwh cut off point)
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