evnow said:I'd like to see this bet carried out !
qwk will probably suggest a bet of 10,000 (remember ?!) instead of % of networth.
Wow. I don't even know what to say.blackmamba said:qwk said:Not a GM hater, I hate manufacturers that build junk, and then are bailed out to continue building more junk. A Tesla P85 will smoke EVERY stock new GM car except the Zo6 vette, and the caddy cts-v. That is a hell of an accomplishment for an all electric car.blackmamba said:Funny guy - standing by his statement that was proven false - two times. "You can't handle the truth!!" according to Jack.
BTW, you missed the part where it was said once the tires got their grip, the Spark EV was still pulling away. Must be tough these days to be a GM hater.
Like I said, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Too bad shills like you won't. Track times and trap speeds never lie.
Of course you are a GM hater. You are just completely out of touch with reality, as evident by your insistence on holding to your fantasies in spite of truth slapping you in the face.
You want to bet? OK, let's have it be, say, 20% of your net worth vs. 20% of mine. Spark EV vs. RAV4 EV. You take the RAV4, I'll take the Spark EV. And then after I win, let's have a Model S vs. Spark EV 60mph-90mph triple or nothing faceoff. You put up 40% of your net worth - if you win, you get the 20% you lost back; if you lose, you still end up with 40% of your net worth. Probably enough for you to buy a Spark EV to replace the Model S you've dreamed about. Why triple? You are so confident you will win, there really is no need to explain.
Of course that would be the plan. This would be a very fair, non bias test, in which both of the vehicles would be given plenty of runs. The best time-slip for the day wins.Volt3939 said:"Wall, I'm not a bettin' man", but I'd suggest specifying stock tires for both vehicles.
EVDRIVER said:It's a shame GM picked such a econobox to use as their EV but this was a rush job like the LEAF.
You are right, the rav4 ev has a ton of wheel spin and to torque steer. The rumor is that Tesla gave it more power, but Toyota would have none of that as it would make their V6 version seem anemic. The end result was the power limited car that is sold now.EVDRIVER said:One of the issues with the RAV is traction, I have driven it and if it were RWD it could get its power properly to the road rather than spinning the tires. Even a better FWD implementation would be helpful. It is very probable the power has been factory regulated on the drive because of the RAVs drive system as well. Do note this is not the same drive as a Model S.
The spark is a lower weight vehicle but this nonsense of a high tech motor is just marketing, it is just a different implementation of an another variant of a traction motor, there is no super tech inside but that also does not mean it is an inferior design either. Some designs are more efficient than others and some are set up to perform better at different speeds and for different types of needs based on the vehicle and design goals. It's a shame GM picked such a econobox to use as their EV but this was a rush job like the LEAF.
Don't expect motor tech to change quickly, for EV performance it will come down to weight and aerodynamics, of course this has held constant from day one but most folks don't understand this, just look at how LEAF buyers don't understand the impact of hills and speed.
Footnote:
The RAV motor is not the same size as any other Tesla traction drive. Could this be a test exercise for a smaller motor for the Gen III Tesla drive or just a costly tooling for the RAV only? The RAV does have some new gen Toyota electronics that will go in future Toyota vehicles, more testing. The RAV is not just a compliance car, it was a brilliant solution for both Tesla and Toyota's issues. NUMI, CARB, Investments, PR, green washing, etc. If anyone thinks Toyota needed any help from Tesla to do an EV then then perhaps they forgot to notice the Prius is not a DC conversion with flooded cell batteries and a volt meter Read between the lines, and look at what this partnership was in it's entirety, it was clear when it was only a rumor. The Spark is just a poor patch job for GM to do a quick EV, sort of a joke based on the capabilities of GM but it serves its purpose for a very short time.
EVDRIVER said:The RAV motor is not the same size as any other Tesla traction drive. Could this be a test exercise for a smaller motor for the Gen III Tesla drive or just a costly tooling for the RAV only? The RAV does have some new gen Toyota electronics that will go in future Toyota vehicles, more testing. The RAV is not just a compliance car, it was a brilliant solution for both Tesla and Toyota's issues. NUMI, CARB, Investments, PR, green washing, etc. If anyone thinks Toyota needed any help from Tesla to do an EV then then perhaps they forgot to notice the Prius is not a DC conversion with flooded cell batteries and a volt meter Read between the lines, and look at what this partnership was in it's entirety, it was clear when it was only a rumor.
+1 It does my heart good to see it!TonyWilliams said:qwk said:... A Tesla P85 will smoke EVERY stock new GM car except the Zo6 vette, and the caddy cts-v. That is a hell of an accomplishment for an all electric car.
Like I said, I'm willing to put my money where my mouth is. Too bad shills like you won't. Track times and trap speeds never lie.
It's kinda fun that you two can talk smack about electric cars!!
Why are people not thinking more globally with the SPARK-EV? Other countries sure don't mind smaller cars and find them a necessity in some cases (i.e. parking, city street size, etc, etc).Bicster said:I don't get the impression that the Spark is a rush job. I think GM has been able to apply lessons from the Volt and even the EV1 and produce a great conversion. I'm glad to see them back in the BEV business. It's too bad their BEV had to be a minicar, though. I'd never consider it for that reason alone. I would be more interested in pure-electric conversion of the Volt.
sparky said:I test drove a SparkEV over the weekend.
Notes:
The Chevy dealer had 3 SparkEVs. I asked the first salesman I found about one in front and he said "how about a test drive?" No, drivers license check and exchange of all manner of personal info that many test drives require. Nice.
It's not as small inside as it seems from the outside but still seems like a car I wouldn't want to drive more than 20 miles at a time.
Jumped in, he said I was really gonna love how quick this thing is "over 440 lbs of torque", etc.
Applied "Sport Mode". At the first stop light with a clear road in front, I jumped on it at the green... sprightly acceleration, only a notch up from the LEAF from 0-30.
Front tires slipped quite a bit but no smoke.
Then a few blocks away at a wide thoroughfare (50 MPH), I jumped on it again and took it up to 55MPH. It's got legs above 50 it seems but the wheel base is so short and the suspension so choppy I don't think I'd dare take it above 70 mph unless on some very smooth tarmac.
Overall impression: Compared to my 2011 LEAF SL; as mentioned above... un-refined. And I think of my LEAF as an "econobox".
I drove the Rav4EV for 2 days and maybe my memory is hazy but I thought it had slightly better accel. Dunno how Tony managed to get dusted twice but I guess the SparkEV does win that quickness contest.
Acceleration, compared to my Tesla S85... puhleeze. The S85 induces mild neck strain from 0-50; The P85 provides neck trauma.
The SparkEV didn't come close in my test drive. Although next week I'll do a back to back with the Fiat 500e and the SparkEV and include some freeway time for a better comparison.
I don't think I'll be a SparkEV leaser/buyer but I'm happy to see so many more options out there (thank you CARB).
Waiting on the i3.
sparky said:I test drove a SparkEV over the weekend.
..... a few blocks away at a wide thoroughfare (50 MPH), I jumped on it again and took it up to 55MPH. It's got legs above 50 it seems............
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Acceleration, compared to my Tesla S85... puhleeze. The S85 induces mild neck strain from 0-50; The P85 provides neck trauma.
The SparkEV didn't come close in my test drive.
You sure it was for the Spark EV and not the ICE Spark?Stoaty said:Surprised to see a billboard for the Chevy Spark a couple of days ago. For those in the San Fernando Valley (L.A. area), it is on the west side of Canoga Avenue a couple of blocks south of Sherman way.
scottf200 said:Why are people not thinking more globally with the SPARK-EV? Other countries sure don't mind smaller cars and find them a necessity in some cases (i.e. parking, city street size, etc, etc).
Yes, I was so surprised I triple checked it. Definitely for the EV version only.cwerdna said:You sure it was for the Spark EV and not the ICE Spark?Stoaty said:Surprised to see a billboard for the Chevy Spark a couple of days ago. For those in the San Fernando Valley (L.A. area), it is on the west side of Canoga Avenue a couple of blocks south of Sherman way.
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