Chevrolet Spark EV

[scottf200]

Wow! For all of the 2,000 of the Sparks per year, GM imports from...where...?

They talked initially about 2,000 in CA (ideal_weather/BEV hotspot/incentives/eco_minded) but really we are talking about a global business here. Think not only outside of CA but outside of the USA. Below the USA, Canada and Japan are dark blue. Look at the dark green. Lots of people in those areas.

So in light of my post about where GM is thinking about focusing the sales on the Spark (hint it is not the USA)
look at this figure/graphic on "Global consumer interest in EVs" where
GREEN is > 85% (China,India) and DARK BLUE is < 55% (USA,Japan,Canada).

If you were a auto manufacturer where would you focus your EV efforts?!?!.

Delotte link: Unplugged: Electric vehicle realities vs expectations

 

[edatoakrun]

The Spark is the smallest car ever to wear the bow tie. Built by Daewoo, it might be attractive with gas at $4 a gallon. But gas is not $4 a gallon. And it’s ugly.

http://www.caranddriver.com/features/2011-10best-cars-the-world-can-keep

http://www.caranddriver.com/news/2013-chevrolet-spark-specs-and-2014-spark-ev-announced-news-car-and-driver" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Maybe C&D was wrong, and it'll actually take $6 gas to get Americans to want to buy 2007 Daewoos in 2014...

But maybe the prestige of the Uzbeki auto industry will cause American buyers to line up to buy...

The Spark is built in Korea, India and Uzbekistan...

http://www.thetruthaboutcars.com/2011/10/where-will-the-chevrolet-spark-ev-be-built/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

C&D was wrong because they failed to recognize our ability to adapt and accept.

back when gas jumped to $3 they said we would not accept $3.50 and they were right...then. but now that we have seen $5.00 and its dropped back to $3.75 we are ok with that.

next year it will jump up about a buck higher, stay that way a few months and then drop down 75 cents and so it will continue...

 

[scottf200]

edatoakrun,

Seriously that is your response?

So do you agree or disagree that CA is not the only place a global business should focus there efforts on?

I have nothing against CA or it's citizens and as I pointed out it is an ideal EV sales location....but there are many many more opportunities. Clearly the above show that.

Do you not believe that China and India markets are critical in the future and likely more so than the USA markets?

 

[evnow]

Do you not believe that China and India markets are critical in the future and likely more so than the USA markets?

Not for highway capable EVs. Both India a& China are highly price sensitive. Infact last I read only some 15 Prius had been sold in India.

NEVs are much better there since the speeds are low and commute distances small. Still, Reva sold more NEVs in UK than in the home market.

People who think China & India are large EV markets, obviously don't know the first thing about those car markets.

 

[scottf200]

Do you not believe that China and India markets are critical in the future and likely more so than the USA markets?

People who think China <snip> are large EV markets, obviously don't know the first thing about those car markets.

:shock: https://www.google.com/search?&q=china+electric+vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

cough cough smog cough cough

 

[SanDust]

People who think China & India are large EV markets, obviously don't know the first thing about those car markets.

So Carlos Ghosn doesn't know the first thing about car markets? He's betting you're wrong. Just for reference, in India gas is about $6/gallon but electricity is heavily subsidized and costs about $.011/kWh. That's the good news. The bad news is that most people who can afford cars want to take them on longer trips and, unlike here, they won't have several vehicles to choose from. They'll just have one.

 

[scottf200]

http://www.opplandcorp.com/ev/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Chinese government and auto makers are pushing hard to achieve countrywide mass adoption of electric vehicles. The Ministry Of Industry And Information Technology announced that there will be at least 500 thousand pure EV and PHEV on road by the end of 2015. And in 2020, the number will reach 5 million. Experts estimate that, within 10 years, China will become the biggest new energy vehicles market.

To support the access to widespread charging networks, China is also on track to lead deployment of electric vehicle infrastructure in the coming years. According to a new report released by Pike Research, more than 5 million charge points will be installed worldwide by 2015 bringing in nearly $6.5 billion in revenue, and nearly half of the equipment will be heading to China. From 2011 to 2015, SGCC, China’s largest power grid state company plans to build a total of 2,351 EV charging facilities and battery-swap stations, and 220,000 charging poles to meet the growing needs of the EV industry in the next five years.

 

[evnow]

People who think China & India are large EV markets, obviously don't know the first thing about those car markets.

So Carlos Ghosn doesn't know the first thing about car markets?

Carlos Ghosn doesn't announce a EV model in the US - hoping to sell a lot of it in China/India.

 

[evnow]

http://www.opplandcorp.com/ev/

Chinese government and auto makers are pushing hard to achieve countrywide mass adoption of electric vehicles. The Ministry Of Industry And Information Technology announced that there will be at least 500 thousand pure EV and PHEV on road by the end of 2015. And in 2020, the number will reach 5 million. Experts estimate that, within 10 years, China will become the biggest new energy vehicles market.

Good thing about Plans & forecasts is that - it takes little effort to change - keep changing them, infact. Afterall BYD had ambitious plans, too. Don't believe all that you read about whats "experts estimate".

As I said, highway capable small BEVs that cost a lot will not sell well in India/China. Cheap NEVs on the otherhand, have a good chance.

http://chinaev.wordpress.com/2011/09/03/are-plug-in-electric-vehicles-now-chinas-destiny-government-adjusting-ambitious-plan/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Ah, how a year can change things. Or more concisely, reality bites. That’s what China is discovering regarding the overly-ambitious new energy vehicle development program that first appeared in the Chinese media in October of 2010. That plan called for huge numbers of battery electric vehicles to be on the road by 2020. http://wardsauto.com/ar/china_pushes_plan_101110/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Now, however, a top executive at a foreign supplier told me “the wheels are coming off” the government’s EV plans. Executives at several of China’s domestic automakers have told him the plans “will just not work,” said the foreign supplier executive.

 

[scottf200]

New Video:

Introducing Chevrolet's all-new Spark coming to the U. S. in late 2012
(Note: there is a 720P version)
[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=a7ou2ztbxLA[/youtube]

 

[AndyH]

A rising tide raises all boats.

Or not.

http://www.jstor.org/pss/27503598

An old adage became popular in the politics and economics of the 1980s:

The rising tide lifts all ships equally.

The adage was frequently recited to "prove" taht tax breaks and other financial incentives fo rthe well-to-do would also help [lift] the poor...this is not correct, at least not in the period 1989 to 1997.

PS: Mike's not a hater (and I thought it was funny!)

 

[evnow]

New Video:

Introducing Chevrolet's all-new Spark coming to the U. S. in late 2012

This is the ICE one, right ?

 

[AndyH]

Welcome to the forum. Since you are another new Volt member here and calling me out by name, I'll bite. Please explain to everyone how the Volt "Technology" contributes to the three primary technological pillars of BEV development? Those would be: 1) Increasing EV Range, 2) Decreasing charge times and 3) Rolling out L2 and L3 Infrastructure.

1. GM authored and pushed through the $7500 tax credit for EVs. (If you dislike GM so much send back your tax credit).
2. Its launch of the Volt forced Nissan to move up its launch date of the Leaf.
3. It worked with the other major car manufacturers to develop the J1772 standard for NA and Japan.
4. It worked with other major manufacturers to develop a single charger which will be used in both Europe and NA.
5. It partnered with LG Chem, and now Envia, to develop the best batteries for EVs.
6. It partnered with SPX to install home chargers throughout the entire country, not just a few roll out states.

Not that I feel this way, but one could ask: And what, pray tell, has Nissan done, besides develop second rate batteries, take advantage of the heavy lifting done by GM on the tax credit, and suck down taxpayer money?

Utter BS. J1772 came out of the SAE and is made up of folks from the World's automakers. The J1772 committee has been harmonizing the EV infrastructure - not GM. LG Chem and A123-Systems both had fabulous batteries well before GM entered the scene. Actually SPX doesn't make chargers, so GM wasn't involve...well, maybe they were involved in that! (But SPX would only sell EVSE to volt owners - not the general public.)

I'd like to see proof that GM was the major player in the $7500 credit and that they forced Nissan's hand with the Leaf.

 

[AndyH]

...So do you agree or disagree that CA is not the only place a global business should focus there efforts on?

I have nothing against CA or it's citizens and as I pointed out it is an ideal EV sales location....but there are many many more opportunities. Clearly the above show that.

Do you not believe that China and India markets are critical in the future and likely more so than the USA markets?

Of course they are critical markets. That's why GM has Asian divisions for those customers, European divisions for (take a guess!), GM Brazil, and the American division. The purpose of the American division is to work this market! And for the USA:

1. EV sales are targeted at hybrid owners,
2. Most hybrid owners are in the West and North East CARB and/or more environmentally conscious areas), and
3. Californians bought 26% of this nation's hybrids in 2007 (and closer to half of all cars sold in the US, IIRC)

I'd STRONGLY suggest that ANY company interested in marketing a BEV would be damn stupid if they didn't run to California! (They should also head West if they're only making a CARB play as well! )


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/General_Motors
http://www.greeniacs.com/GreeniacsA...-Cars-and-Clean-Living-in-Silicon-Valley.html
http://www-958.ibm.com/software/data/cognos/manyeyes/visualizations/new-hybrid-car-sales-per-state
http://www.nada.org/NR/rdonlyres/0798BE2A-9291-44BF-A126-0D372FC89B8A/0/NADA_DATA_08222011.pdf

 

[scottf200]

New Video: Introducing Chevrolet's all-new Spark coming to the U. S. in late 2012

This is the ICE one, right ?

Yes, but gives us an idea of their hip marketing angle.

The 2011-10-12 GM media post on it echos the flashy video - young, urban dwellers...
http://media.gm.com/content/media/us/en/chevrolet/news.detail.html/content/Pages/news/us/en/2011/Oct/1012_SparkMCE" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Spark Joins Chevrolet’s U.S. Small Car Lineup in 2012 - 2011-10-12
DETROIT – Chevrolet hopes to excite first-time buyers and city residents when the Spark mini car joins the brand’s small car family next year in the United States and Canada. The Spark is a five-door, four-passenger hatch that is on sale in Chevrolet markets around the world.

“For young, urban dwellers, the 2013 Chevrolet Spark can be their key to the city,” said Chris Perry, vice president, global Chevrolet marketing and strategy. “Spark’s vibrant exterior and interior colors make a statement, but it is a practical car, too. Affordable, maneuverable and very fuel-efficient, Spark will be easy to own and easy to drive.”

More details about the Spark, the smallest Chevrolet in the U.S. and Canadian lineups, will be unveiled next month at the Los Angeles International Auto Show. The first version of the Spark is being sold in Europe, Korea, India, Mexico, South America and Australia.

P.S. AndyH, I see you posted but you are on my ignore list so I don't see your post. Hopefully you weren't responding to me.

 

[hodad66]

funny, I didn't see those either...... :mrgreen:

They have taken a cue from Scion......

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

actually the EV tax credit was already a done deal. GM only lobbied to change the requirements so the Volt would qualify for the max credit.

Ghosn was recently interviewed by NPR News and stated flatly that the Leaf would not have happened if not for the current government incentives.

so as we see, the incentives have been in place a long time.

http://www.npr.org/2011/11/21/142609004/test-driving-the-nissan-leaf?sc=tw" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

so you can see that GM and Nissan do have parallels. the government essentially helped both of them bring products to this country. now we can debate (very actively i might add) about the usefulness of the Volt and the Leaf, but both do benefit America.

now all that remains is to see if both companies benefit from the help received

 

[AndyH]

According to the SAE, Spark to use A123-Systems LiFePO4 cells

http://www.sae.org/mags/AEI/POWER/10324

California and other select U.S. and global locales will get the Spark EV, which will use A123 Systems' prismatic Li-ion battery cells manufactured at the company's Livonia, MI, facility—the largest Li-ion manufacturing plant in North America.

According to Jason Forcier, Vice President of A123's Automotive Solutions Group, "These cells are designed to deliver high power, increased usable energy, long life, and excellent safety—serving as the building blocks on which we build modules and full systems for passenger and commercial plug-in hybrids and pure electric vehicles."

"This is the first time GM has contracted a supplier to provide the complete battery packs for one of its vehicles, so we feel this is strong validation of both our advanced Nanophosphate Li-ion technology as well as our systems engineering capabilities," noted Forcier.

 

[Herm]

A123 will build the cells and then assemble the packs, GM must be planning on keeping their existing battery assembly plant busy building Volt packs.. so it sounds good.