Charging Costs

[Welles]

I have so much to learn. I am curious how much I can expect my electric bill to go up. For now we are using the household plug. I only travel about 20-30 miles a day, so I don't need to charge too often. Someone told me theyheard about a guy who had a Tesla and his power bill went up $400/month! Yikes - please tell me that is crazy!

 

[epirali]

I have so much to learn. I am curious how much I can expect my electric bill to go up. For now we are using the household plug. I only travel about 20-30 miles a day, so I don't need to charge too often. Someone told me theyheard about a guy who had a Tesla and his power bill went up $400/month! Yikes - please tell me that is crazy!

Complete b.s. Depending on where you are count on 9-13 cents per KW hour. So say a full charge is 24, so it will cost $2.30 per charge. At 80 miles range for a full charge if you drive 40 miles per day that is under $8/week.

Another way to look at it: think 3-4 cents per mile. You'd have to drive 10,000 miles per month to pay $400.

 

[ObiQuiet]

Quick math:

(miles per month that you expect to drive) / (miles per kWh you expect to achieve) x (cost per kWh that you pay for electricity) = electricity cost per month

Notes:
1. Miles per kWh depends on many factors, like driving style. Plan for between 3.2 (low end, heater, lots of acceleration) and 4.2 (high end, best case, conservative style).
2. Cost per kWh is best determined by looking at your electric bill, unless you live where you can get a special rate (e.g. cheaper rates for electricity used overnight)

There are other factors, like that the amount of power coming out of the wall is more than what goes into the car, but if you're looking for a +/- 30% ball park, this should be good enough.

Others will, I am sure, add their own versions of this math and the numbers you can expect under various conditions.

 

[joewaters]

You can expect your electric bill to go up proportionately about 1/6 of what you would have spent in gasoline if all your charging was at home and you drive the same mileage and style as the prior ICE vehicle. If you use only the 120v brick, expect a slightly higher ratio, since the charging system will run for a longer time to complete the charge. This is a generalization based on what I've experienced, and you need to fill in information to calculate the costs to be accurate. The miles/kwh you drive at, the miles you drive, your EVSE efficiency, and the electric rate /TOU rates you are using all combine to get the cost.
I use my Carwings (https://www.nissanusa.com/owners/vehicles" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false tool, which allows you to enter a rate and gives an estimate for the cost. Go to the Driving History page and click Electric rate simulation.

 

[pkulak]

Short answer: 25 bucks. You probably won't even notice.

 

[Welles]

I love this. Thank you all so very much. I have so much to learn - I want to be able to actually understand what you all were talking about. I am willing to put in the time.

 

[gsleaf]

The bill for our Leaf is around $30/month.

 

[ObiQuiet]

Short answer: 25 bucks. You probably won't even notice.

+1

 

[DoctorSaul]

I have so much to learn. I am curious how much I can expect my electric bill to go up. For now we are using the household plug. I only travel about 20-30 miles a day, so I don't need to charge too often. Someone told me theyheard about a guy who had a Tesla and his power bill went up $400/month! Yikes - please tell me that is crazy!

Mine is about $25 for electricity for the month of October. If you calculated the hypothetical cost of gasoline for the same number of miles travelled (at $3.25/gal) the cost would have been about $302... quite a savings per month!

Its easy to calculate the cost of the electricity used by the Leaf if you use the Carwings App. It tracks the number of KWhs used in charging the Leef. Here in Missouri, the cost of electricity is 8 cents/KWh. Most people think I'm exaggerating when I tell them the electricity cost when asked.

The $400 bill for Tesla charging is pure B.S.

 

[kubel]

I have a separate meter and separate bill. It's $30/mo in the summer, $60/mo in the winter. I drive ~55 miles every weekday and maybe 20 miles through the weekend. I'm a very spirited driver. My utility offers unlimited electricity for $40/mo. I may switch to that plan.

 

[cgaydos]

For whatever reason people who listen to anti-EV media tend to ask about your electric bills.

The key is that whatever extra you are paying will be a fraction of the reduction in your gas station credit card bills. The exact amounts depend on where you live, as gas prices and electric rates vary, but there is no question your total costs will be lower.

After getting a few questions like this I learned to answer as follows: we pay about $70 more per month for electricity for our two LEAFs, which together average about 25k miles/year, but we are paying hundreds per month *less* in gasoline. The way to calculate it is this: we pay under 3 cents per mile in summer and about 4 cents per mile in winter. At $3.50/gallon, we were paying over 15 cents per mile.

Funnily enough that's when people "get it".

 

[planet4ever]

It depends heavily on where you live, for several reasons. ObiQuiet's formula is right if you apply the terms in order from left to right and then divide by the charging efficiency.

• miles per month that you expect to drive: You may think you are only going to use the car for commuting, but most of us prefer to use the LEAF over our other vehicle if the distance is not too much for it.
• divided by miles per kWh you expect to achieve: This depends in half a dozen ways on where you live. The number will go way down when it is cold. It will be somewhat lower in mountainous terrain. Wind is a killer. Rain also reduces it. Stop and go driving cuts your efficiency. Speed takes perhaps the greatest toll of all, and in some areas you do most of your driving on high speed freeways. 4.0 m/kWh is pretty much a best case at 60 mph with perfect conditions. You can easily drop below 3 m/kWh in bad conditions or at 75 mph.
• times cost per kWh that you pay for electricity: I disagree strongly with epirali on his "9-13" ¢/kWh. In some parts of the country you may pay 6¢. In others, such as California, your effective cost can be 40¢ or more. The hooker in states like California is that the state mandates "tiers" so that the more electricity you use the more you have to pay per kWh. Unless you get a separate meter, the energy you use to charge your car is added on top of what you use for your house, so the extra amount you pay is at the highest tier you are paying. You can't just look at the average price/kWh on your bill.
• divided by charging efficiency: Assume 0.75 for L1 (120v) charging. Depending on amperage, L2 (240v) charging is probably 0.83 to 0.87.

Ray

 

[cwerdna]

I have so much to learn. I am curious how much I can expect my electric bill to go up. For now we are using the household plug. I only travel about 20-30 miles a day, so I don't need to charge too often. Someone told me theyheard about a guy who had a Tesla and his power bill went up $400/month! Yikes - please tell me that is crazy!

Complete b.s. Depending on where you are count on 9-13 cents per KW hour. .

I agree that $400/month higher is total BS. That someone likely doesn't have an EV or PHEV. However, your "9-13 cents per KW hour" is a terrible answer and the wrong units. planet4ever provided a very good answer.

Some providers are a ripoff, like mine once you start getting to tier 3 and beyond. See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=331767#p331767" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

Try putting in your usage into http://www.pge.com/myhome/myaccount/charges/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; w/95136 zip and no for CARE. I'd be curious how about your usage for a month, your rates and what the calculator says (which is actually too low, since it doesn't include taxes and fees).

OP, can you update your location info via User Control Panel (near top) > Profile (left side)? That way, we don't need to ask in future posts/threads or do sleuthing to deduce it. We have no clue what your electric bills will be like w/o that.

What are your daily driving needs in terms of miles? How much city vs. highway? Will you have the ability to charge at your work/destinations?

For my, me electric bill is virtually unchanged as I only charge at home on weekends and the rest of the time, charge for free at work. I've also switched to a TOU plan w/my provider (E6-Smart) and am now working again, instead of being at home consuming electricity during the day.

I uploaded the following snapshot of the PG&E estimator. I'm on the cheapest plan for my usage. EVA is the worst plan for me. I got my Leaf at the end of July 2013.

My last electric bill (not included in the chart) was $27.00 exactly, including taxes and fees. That covered 9/12/13 thru 10/10/13. I used ~237 kwh in total for that period.

 

[UBUYGAS]

My Electric bill went up $25 per month.

I Tell people all the time. I Drive 300 miles with $6.90 in electricity.

And then they ask how much did your electric bill go up! (I'm pretty sure they are expecting me to say hundreds of dollars a month)

They just can't fathom that it's so cheap.

I tell them my Electric bill went up $25 a month. And I watch them as the try to calculate the math in their heads. They just can't understand.

One girl said wow that much!!!!?

Another said Wow that's a lot! LMAO

Then I ask them, how many miles can you drive with $7.00 in gas. they sit there and figure it out and then they say 50 to 60 miles. And then I tell them I drive 300 miles with $7.00 and they kinda of get it.

With some people their brains click on and a spark happens and they are like wow, it's so cheap.

I also see it in my rear-view mirror, I look at the people going to my license plate website and I can see them reading the site on the mobile phones and I can see that they are confused. They just can't understand that $7.00 can get 300 miles.

My License plate says UBUYGAS, I'm sure 50% of the people see that and they have no idea why it says that. They probably say to themselves "Yea I do buy gas"

I saw this hot chick in Brooklyn in a hard top convertible BMW with a vanity plate that said something in spanish, I rolled down my window and said what does that mean, and she said "No Drama" and I said ahh that's cool, and I asked her did you see mine?, and she said no, I said it says UBUYGAS and I asked her do you know why it says that and she said No. Then I told her, this car is 100% Electric, No Gas Whatsoever and she said Wow, I didn't know there were all electric cars!!, She started asking me all the standard questions and she was amazed! How can an intelligent looking woman who is driving a 50K car not know that there are electric cars around?

In order for Gas cars to compete with the LEAF gas has to go down to 69 cents gallon. Then they will pay the same as me. But I'll still be ahead of the game since I don't pay for oil changes, spark plugs, timing belts, anti-freeze, cracking dry-roting belts, etc.

Lasareath

 

[mbender]

I love this. Thank you all so very much. I have so much to learn - I want to be able to actually understand what you all were talking about. I am willing to put in the time.

I think the best place to start, for a complete novice, is to become really familiar and understand what a kWh, or kilowatt-hour, is, how much it costs (you), and how far it will take you in your LEAF. After you "grok" a kilowatt-hour, a lot of other things fall into place or are easily calculated/estimated.

So first, here are some rough, non-technical ways of conceiving what 1 kilowatt-hour is:

• It is an amount of energy, very roughly equal to the usable energy in a pint of gasoline. (8 pints in a gallon.)
• It costs roughly 10-15¢ from the "average" utility, but this can vary greatly depending on season, time of day, and what kind of "rate plan" you subscribe to.
• It is roughly how much energy you can transfer to the battery in one hour using the trickle (110V) EVSE that came with the vehicle. That's because that EVSE delivers approximately 1 kilowatt, continuously (or 1000W = 110V x 11A * inefficiency_factor) which, over the course of 1 hour, yields 1 kilowatt-hour, or 1 kWh.

As for how far 1 kWh will take you, that depends on how and where you drive, and you will learn from experience. Above someone gave a range of 3.2 - 4.2 miles (from 1kWh).

So, for a simple example (using the simplest numbers), let's say you pay 10¢ per kWh and get exactly 4 miles from it because you drive mostly at low speeds. Here are a few deductions you could immediately make:

• it would require 10kWh to go 40 miles
• it would cost you $1.00 to go 40 miles
• to replenish the battery for those 40 miles...
  would require 10 hours charging at 110V

I sure hope this helps, is not condescending, and doesn't make things more confusing. It should "jive" with everything that has been said above (and may be said below ;-)). Good luck!

 

[epirali]

I have so much to learn. I am curious how much I can expect my electric bill to go up. For now we are using the household plug. I only travel about 20-30 miles a day, so I don't need to charge too often. Someone told me theyheard about a guy who had a Tesla and his power bill went up $400/month! Yikes - please tell me that is crazy!

Complete b.s. Depending on where you are count on 9-13 cents per KW hour. .

I agree that $400/month higher is total BS. That someone likely doesn't have an EV or PHEV. However, your "9-13 cents per KW hour" is a terrible answer and the wrong units. planet4ever provided a very good answer.

Actually the cost/kwHR is exactly what you need, from which you can get cost per mile. So I am not sure why it's terrible. You can use that with average miles/kwhr and efficiency factor.

Also someone said cost estimates are wrong and can be as high as 40c/kwhr, but look here.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am sure there are places where power may be more but seems like 13c/kwhr as an average is pretty good start.

 

[Klayfish]

I really can't say for sure exactly how much my electric bill went up per month. I've hardly noticed. I have noticed how much less goes on my credit card every month for fuel I no longer buy.

That's all the answer I need.

 

[planet4ever]

Also someone said cost estimates are wrong and can be as high as 40c/kwhr, but look here.

http://www.eia.gov/electricity/monthly/epm_table_grapher.cfm?t=epmt_5_6_a" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

I am sure there are places where power may be more but seems like 13c/kwhr as an average is pretty good start.

I'm the one who said that, and yes the average cost of electricity may indeed be only 16.5¢ as that chart says, but I also said you can't use the average in a state like California where tiered rates are involved.

Specific example for my area, using the standard rate schedule (E-1) that most people use, and looking at May through October:
13.23¢/kWh for the first 11 kWh/day
15.04¢/kWh for the next 3.3 kWh/day
31.11¢/kWh for the next 7.7 kWh/day
35.11¢/kWh for everything after that.

If you have an electric clothes dryer and run an air conditioner during the summer it is hard not to use at least 22 kWh per day. If you are already using an average of 22 kWh or more per day for the house, then all of your EV charging will be on top of that, and will cost you 35.11¢/kWh.

Yes, that's "only" 35¢, not 40¢, but some rate schedules do go higher. Our utility's solar rate goes up to 50.6¢ at the top tier!

One final point: If I had that rate schedule and was using exactly 22 kWh/day, my cost would be
0.1323*11 + 0.1504*3.3 + 0.3111*7.7 = $4.35/day
$4.35/22 = 19.76¢/kWh
That is not much above what the chart you pointed to shows, and it is far below what charging the car would actually cost. That's why I said you can't use average cost if the rate schedule is tiered.

Ray

 

[goaliepride]

I have tiered CA electricity. Mine went up about $50 a month due to crappy tiered electricity (15c low, 17c above that, 34c above that!), and since I only use a level 1 at home I couldn't reasonably switch to "hour of use", not that it would have helped much. Since I rent I don't want to pay for a whole new meter to have a separate bill there.

Eh, I charge at work now (level 2 Blink charger). It costs me $2/50%/45 miles/day. My commute is 19 miles each way, that plus some errands costs me about $2. That's $10 a week, $40 a month. I was paying around $100 in gas.

When I get a house of my own I'll switch electricity rates (or go solar)

 

[Stanton]

Around $20/month. I have documented over the last few months that my "wall to wheels" cost is 2-3 cents/kWh (about 1/10 as much as one of my ICE cars).