Charge Timer/ 80% charge question

[caross]

I'm going to add to this thread, rather than create a new one... since I believe they are semi-related.

I've got my Leaf set up on timers.

Timer 1: 80% Charge : Sun-Thurs : 5a - 8a
Timer 2: 100% Charge : Fri-Sat : 4a - 9a
80% Charge Limit Setting : On

I do the above for a few reasons:
- Charge on off peak hours and some sunlight hours (We have solar)
- Charge to 80% most of the time
- On weekends we have a full charge for longer/more weekend trips

Now, this is great for 99% of the time. However, tonight for example, we're headed in to the city for a date night. I'm going to need the car charged to 100%.

The timer overrides the 80% Charge Limit Setting when in that Fri-Sat window. Great.
HOWEVER, I would have thought the "Ignore the timer" button would act like a "Just Charge" button and let the car charge fully. It does not. It cancels the timer, but then the 80% charge limit kicks in and it stops anyway.

So, I suppose my question is, is there any way (short of un-setting that 80% limit every time), that I can tell the car to charge fully.

In not, there should be.

 

[swaltner]

The timer overrides the 80% Charge Limit Setting when in that Fri-Sat window. Great.
HOWEVER, I would have thought the "Ignore the timer" button would act like a "Just Charge" button and let the car charge fully. It does not. It cancels the timer, but then the 80% charge limit kicks in and it stops anyway.

So, I suppose my question is, is there any way (short of un-setting that 80% limit every time), that I can tell the car to charge fully.

As you alluded to, there are two ways to limit the charge to 80%, You can limit them with a charging timer as well as with the charging settings screen. The override button is just a "charging timer override", it doesn't impact the global charging settings.

You need to press the zero emissions button, then select settings, then disable the "long-life mode" on this screen. This will allow the battery to immediately charge to 100% when you press the charging override button on the dash (or the charge now button on the carwings web site or smartphone app). This is how I'm configured. It works just how I want it.

 

[braineo]

AFter a few times that the timer vs charger set up didn't work for me I went to a simpler set up.

Any day from 11pm -7pm 100% charge.

The only time I've been in trouble is when going to meetings downtown that start at 7pm. I just then must remember to press the override.

The days I don't drive I don't connect to charge.

If battery dies early, I might get a new battery.

If not, I'll seek a good lawyer.

 

[caross]

The timer overrides the 80% Charge Limit Setting when in that Fri-Sat window. Great.
HOWEVER, I would have thought the "Ignore the timer" button would act like a "Just Charge" button and let the car charge fully. It does not. It cancels the timer, but then the 80% charge limit kicks in and it stops anyway.

So, I suppose my question is, is there any way (short of un-setting that 80% limit every time), that I can tell the car to charge fully.

As you alluded to, there are two ways to limit the charge to 80%, You can limit them with a charging timer as well as with the charging settings screen. The override button is just a "charging timer override", it doesn't impact the global charging settings.

You need to press the zero emissions button, then select settings, then disable the "long-life mode" on this screen. This will allow the battery to immediately charge to 100% when you press the charging override button on the dash (or the charge now button on the carwings web site or smartphone app). This is how I'm configured. It works just how I want it.

Yea, I see what you are saying. So, really, leave it in 100% mode all the time, and let the timers do the limiting.

Ok, reasonable solution.

Thx.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

I found these instructions on a exact way to get to 80%:

http://sfbayleafs.org/ev-resources/leaf-tips-tricks/charge-to-80-percent/

However, it seems that the nav system is required for this to work. I have the Leaf S without the nav system, so there is only one timer, and it is only for beginning and end times; and no way to limit it to 80%, as far as I can tell.

Maybe someone can enlighten me? Please and thank you.

 

[cwerdna]

I found these instructions on a exact way to get to 80%:

http://sfbayleafs.org/ev-resources/leaf-tips-tricks/charge-to-80-percent/

However, it seems that the nav system is required for this to work. I have the Leaf S without the nav system, so there is only one timer, and it is only for beginning and end times; and no way to limit it to 80%, as far as I can tell.

Maybe someone can enlighten me? Please and thank you.

If you have a '14+ Leaf, the charge to 80% option has been removed. :roll: (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=15526" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false

The above trick I learned from another thread but the '13 Leaf also had a long-life mode (80%) toggle via the nav display instead of having to use that goofy timer trick. It still is useful for me, in the scenario at http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=11&t=14825" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

If you care, if you want to see how to do it on a '13 Leaf S (no nav), download the '13 Leaf manual from https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and look at page CH-30 (79 of the PDF).

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Thanks - we have a '15 Leaf S, so it appears that the 80% option is not there. Maybe with the new (so called lizard) battery, it is not required?

 

[RonDawg]

Maybe with the new (so called lizard) battery, it is not required?

The 2014 model did not have the lizard battery, so that's not the reason for it no longer being included. The speculation is:

• Nissan didn't think it was particularly helpful in reducing the occurrence of premature battery capacity degradation, and/or
• To get them additional miles from the EPA range test

 

[cwerdna]

Maybe with the new (so called lizard) battery, it is not required?

The 2014 model did not have the lizard battery, so that's not the reason for it no longer being included. The speculation is:
...
[*]To get them additional miles from the EPA range test[/list]

Yep. No lizard battery until model year 2015. On the latter, it did give them additional miles.

http://insideevs.com/2013-nissan-leaf-rated-at-75-miles-but-84-miles-using-the-old-system/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://insideevs.com/2014-nissan-leaf-mostly-unchanged-as-range-technically-moves-up-to-84-miles/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

NeilBlanchard can click thru the cars at http://www.fueleconomy.gov/feg/evsbs.shtml" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, look at miles to charge figures and ask oneself these questions:
How many EV shoppers who aren't enthusiasts will know the above story?
Assuming that the majority have no idea about the above (almost certainly a safe assumption), if buyers saw only 75 miles vs. the 84 that's listed (these figures will be on the window sticker too), which figure looks more competitive vs. all the other pure BEVs? What are the odds someone will buy/lease a non-Leaf if the '14+ Leaf still had a 75 mile EPA rating vs. 84?
How many unscrupulous or ignorant dealers will use the 84 miles as a means of pushing '14 Leafs on the lot vs. the '13?

 

[boba]

My manual (2015 S) says nothing about charging to only 80% and the dealer says there is no problem with 100%

 

[cwerdna]

My manual (2015 S) says nothing about charging to only 80% and the dealer says there is no problem with 100%

Yes, it was removed from the '14+ Leafs.

As for dealer... heh... we've had MANY instances of dealers who lack knowledge.

Anyhow, in '13 Leafs and older, there were plenty of warnings all over the place about not staying at high state of charge, etc. Download the '11 thru '13 Leaf manual (for instance) at https://owners.nissanusa.com/nowners/navigation/manualsGuide" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;.

In my '13 Leaf manual, it has warnings on page EV-24 (43 of PDF) like

Avoid sustained high battery state of charge
(caused, for example, by frequently charging to
100% state of charge and/or leaving the battery
above 80% state of charge for long periods of
time).
• Allow the battery charge to be below at least
80% before charging.

I recall there were other documents that people may have had to sign that basically said something similar.

On page CH-26 (75 of PDF), there's

LONG LIFE MODE
Use the default setting, long distance mode
(100% charge) to maximize vehicle range. Use
the long life mode to help maximize the Li-ion
battery useful life.
The long life mode is set by changing the [%
Charge] to [80% Charge (Improves Battery Longevity)]
using the following procedure.

Long-life mode ONLY existed on the '13. Prior to '13, the only easy way to get it stop exactly at 80% was via the trick at http://sfbayleafs.org/ev-resources/leaf-tips-tricks/charge-to-80-percent/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; mentioned earlier.

And, given how many of Nissan's statements were wrong/misleading about how much capacity would remain (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=27&t=16236" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=253739#p253739" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;, etc.), we don't need battery cooling (http://www.wired.com/2010/01/nissan-leaf-2/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false, and so on, it's hard to know whether or not eliminating an 80% setting will have a negative effect on li-ion battery longevity, esp. given all their warnings before.

 

[NeilBlanchard]

Thanks folks - it is good to know we can now use "all" of the battery. My sister-in-law has a 2011 and they have been doing this faithfully - no bars lost.

 

[cwerdna]

Thanks folks - it is good to know we can now use "all" of the battery. My sister-in-law has a 2011 and they have been doing this faithfully - no bars lost.

You could always use "all" the battery (well, there's actually some capacity you can't access at the top and bottom). Off the top of my head, calendar losses, esp. at high temps will contribute to loss. Those in Phoenix and some of TX w/'11 Leafs had horrific capacity losses (2 to 4 bars lost) in under 21 months (http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=228326" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false.

Again, we're not really clear how much charging to only 80% helps, but Nissan removed it with the '14+ Leafs and claimed it didn't help much. But, given the credibility they lost long ago...

 

[NeilBlanchard]

The 2015 Leaf, though has the more heat tolerant battery, so it is much less likely to be an issue. My sister-in-law drives a 2011 Leaf and she has not lost any bars.

I put "all" in quotation marks for a reason. I understand we are using the capacity that the engineers have designed it for.

 

[cwerdna]

The 2015 Leaf, though has the more heat tolerant battery, so it is much less likely to be an issue.

We have no idea. We've never gotten data from Nissan about the improved heat tolerance of the lizard battery vs. the old ones. We've also never gotten data from Nissan about effects at high or 100% state of charge of any of the battery variants ('11-'12, '13-'14, lizard, etc.)

There were unspecified battery chemistry tweaks on the '13 Leaf batteries, but AFAIK, Nissan never said why and what the net effect was supposed to be.

My sister-in-law drives a 2011 Leaf and she has not lost any bars.

Where does she live? How many miles on it? The climate makes a HUGE difference. For all we know, she may have lost capacity bars. http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=349448#p349448" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was an example of one of my street encounters w/someone who lost 2 of them but didn't even realize it. :roll:

 

[NeilBlanchard]

She lives here in Massachusetts. I think there are a bit more than 30,000 miles on it, so not that many. And I think she has been mostly doing the 80% charges.