car wont go into drive or reverse. Starts fine
- Thread starter Webnine
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No other warning lights on the dash? What year? Can you shut off and try again, and what happens when you do?
2017 Leaf let sit for 2 months. Starts fine but brake pedal feels wierd and when I **** ti D or R in only goen to Neutral
All kinds of warning lights on dash
If you have the ability with Leafspy or a obd scanner look at and record the codes then clear them. Check the charge on the 12 volt. If it is low, charge it.
If you have none of the equipment needed, you can try re-setting by using this method:
Turn the car on, then off, WAIT 5 min at least, an hour at most with it off,then and remove the neg from the 12 volt battery. Wait a few minutes and re-connect the 12 volt and see if it re-set.
One other thing, when it does turn on, what does the battery (range) indicator say?
If you have none of the equipment needed, you can try re-setting by using this method:
Turn the car on, then off, WAIT 5 min at least, an hour at most with it off,then and remove the neg from the 12 volt battery. Wait a few minutes and re-connect the 12 volt and see if it re-set.
One other thing, when it does turn on, what does the battery (range) indicator say?
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Battery Range indicator says 79 miles
That is good, it suggest the traction battery is still alive and the BMS is at least responding.
The reason you can't just disconnect the 12 volt without going through the procedure, according to the service manual, this places it in a state where the Dc-DC will not be trying to charge and allows the capacitors that are used as a back-up to fire the air bags and seat belt tensioners, to bleed off a bit. It says not doing so will cause erroneous trouble codes to set, which many have reported.
Some trouble codes will "lock" the car from going into "ready" (driving) mode but still will allow the car to be shifted into neutral, to allow it to be pushed into position for a tow truck. That sounds like what is going on in yours. The question is: Is it a simple erroneous code problem that can be cleared , or is a real code and the problem needs to be repaired before it can be cleared?
If you have Leafspy or other "scanner" and can clear the codes via the OBD 2 port, that is the easiest, but may be able to clear using the 12 volt disconnect procedure I outlined.
It would help to know what trouble codes are present, and that will likely indicate what is locking it out of driving mode.
The reason you can't just disconnect the 12 volt without going through the procedure, according to the service manual, this places it in a state where the Dc-DC will not be trying to charge and allows the capacitors that are used as a back-up to fire the air bags and seat belt tensioners, to bleed off a bit. It says not doing so will cause erroneous trouble codes to set, which many have reported.
Some trouble codes will "lock" the car from going into "ready" (driving) mode but still will allow the car to be shifted into neutral, to allow it to be pushed into position for a tow truck. That sounds like what is going on in yours. The question is: Is it a simple erroneous code problem that can be cleared , or is a real code and the problem needs to be repaired before it can be cleared?
If you have Leafspy or other "scanner" and can clear the codes via the OBD 2 port, that is the easiest, but may be able to clear using the 12 volt disconnect procedure I outlined.
It would help to know what trouble codes are present, and that will likely indicate what is locking it out of driving mode.
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Stanton
Well-known member
Then it didn't really "start"! Do you have the green car icon in the dash? If not, then it isn't "ready" and you need to replace the 12v battery.
Until it goes into "ready" mode (Green car with <-> under it) I don't think the power steering nor power brake are active, so will feel different.
Sorry you invested in a new 12 volt and it didn't help.
If you had the battery disconnected for a few minutes and it still went back to acting up, it is more and more likely you are faced with a hard code that preventing (locking out) the ready mode.
There are a fair number of codes that will lock out the ready mode, and without knowing what codes are stored, it would be foolish to guess.
While I think it unlikely it is an erroneous code at this point, it still will cost nothing to try the reset method of disconnecting the 12 volt.
If that doesn't help, then a code reader and some diagnoses will be required. If that is more than you can do yourself, then a tow to a dealer or EV shop is order.
Sorry you invested in a new 12 volt and it didn't help.
If you had the battery disconnected for a few minutes and it still went back to acting up, it is more and more likely you are faced with a hard code that preventing (locking out) the ready mode.
There are a fair number of codes that will lock out the ready mode, and without knowing what codes are stored, it would be foolish to guess.
While I think it unlikely it is an erroneous code at this point, it still will cost nothing to try the reset method of disconnecting the 12 volt.
If that doesn't help, then a code reader and some diagnoses will be required. If that is more than you can do yourself, then a tow to a dealer or EV shop is order.
What is the voltage of the "new" 12V battery? Did you fully charge it before installation?
It can take several battery disconnect cycles for the system to reset and restore operation, assuming that the 12V battery is fully charged. Anything less is just wasting time, all those errors are caused by a weak 12V battery. Been there done that.
The car was taken to the stdealer and they said the main pack was the issue, but it was a weak 12V battery that caused the problem.
Seen it once, seen it a hundred times on this forum.
It can take several battery disconnect cycles for the system to reset and restore operation, assuming that the 12V battery is fully charged. Anything less is just wasting time, all those errors are caused by a weak 12V battery. Been there done that.
The car was taken to the stdealer and they said the main pack was the issue, but it was a weak 12V battery that caused the problem.
Seen it once, seen it a hundred times on this forum.
Boy I could make a good living selling all the replaced 12 volt batteries that didn't fix the problem "but needed to be replaced anyway"!
There is a procedure to follow in the service manual, to avoid setting erroneous DTC's. Shouldn't require multiple attempts if you follow the procedure.
True, replacing a battery can "clear" codes that are stored, but so can disconnecting the battery and re-connecting.
Just disconnecting the 12 volt can cause trouble codes. Best thing is to use an OBD2 tool to read, record and clear the codes, then see if they re-appear.
It seams many do not have the tools to do that, so disconnecting the battery is the next best thing, you still don't know what codes were set, and if you don't follow procedure, you can generate codes.
I have never been sold a lead acid battery that was sold totally discharged.
So you can spend $100 or more to dis-connect the battery (and replace with a new one) or you can check the battery and if it is good, just disconnect (using the procedure outlined in the manual) and either way will clear codes, one cost money, the other does not. The Leafs 12 volt needs are low compared to most ICE cars, so a simple voltage reading while "starting" is all that is required.
IT AIN'T rocket science.
There is a procedure to follow in the service manual, to avoid setting erroneous DTC's. Shouldn't require multiple attempts if you follow the procedure.
True, replacing a battery can "clear" codes that are stored, but so can disconnecting the battery and re-connecting.
Just disconnecting the 12 volt can cause trouble codes. Best thing is to use an OBD2 tool to read, record and clear the codes, then see if they re-appear.
It seams many do not have the tools to do that, so disconnecting the battery is the next best thing, you still don't know what codes were set, and if you don't follow procedure, you can generate codes.
I have never been sold a lead acid battery that was sold totally discharged.
So you can spend $100 or more to dis-connect the battery (and replace with a new one) or you can check the battery and if it is good, just disconnect (using the procedure outlined in the manual) and either way will clear codes, one cost money, the other does not. The Leafs 12 volt needs are low compared to most ICE cars, so a simple voltage reading while "starting" is all that is required.
IT AIN'T rocket science.
It has happened to me 3 times.
They don't charge any batteries that are sitting on the shelf, and the 51R is not a commonly sold battery.
Voltage decays 3 to 6 % per month just sitting and the plates get sulfation damage as it sits there. Sure you have a warranty but who wants to mess with taking it in and out, when a good full charge with a 14.4 cycle can help get you off to a good start.
You have only been here a few months; after a few years your opinion on weak 12V battery issues will likely change. Hundreds of posts on this forum of no start or no charge, and then the culprit was found to be an old, weak or worn out and depleted 12V battery.
An I bet I have far more experience in the trade than you, My time on the forum is irrelevant. Cutting of your foot for an ingrown toenail will cure it 100% of the time. It doesn't make it the best course of action.
I don't know who you buy your batteries from, but if anyone sold me a discharged unit, they would never sell me another. Deep discharges damage a lead acid battery. They are shipped "dry charged" and once acid is put in, need a full charge, if they then sit enough to discharge, damage has already happened. Group 51's are used in alot of Asian cars and in other applications, not as common as a 24, or a 31 but not that uncommon.
Sending everyone, esp those that have provided enough info to indicate otherwise, running for a new battery is not helpful. Yes the act of taking a battery out and back in, either the same or different battery, will clear codes. Clearing codes can unlock an interlock code. If it comes back it is likely a true problem. If it doesn't the battery didn't solve it the resetting did. Some codes like HV leakage codes, can come and go depending on the heating and expansion of the modules, or they can be there all the time.
In the last few weeks we have two problems at least where it has been shown not to be the 12 volt battery after many (including you) have said it was.
I am not saying 12 volt battery never fail, but any battery less than 5 years old I would find it highly suspect that it was the problem and not a symptom.
Unless a battery has been charged, checked and proven to be faulty, recommending replacement is premature.
I don't know who you buy your batteries from, but if anyone sold me a discharged unit, they would never sell me another. Deep discharges damage a lead acid battery. They are shipped "dry charged" and once acid is put in, need a full charge, if they then sit enough to discharge, damage has already happened. Group 51's are used in alot of Asian cars and in other applications, not as common as a 24, or a 31 but not that uncommon.
Sending everyone, esp those that have provided enough info to indicate otherwise, running for a new battery is not helpful. Yes the act of taking a battery out and back in, either the same or different battery, will clear codes. Clearing codes can unlock an interlock code. If it comes back it is likely a true problem. If it doesn't the battery didn't solve it the resetting did. Some codes like HV leakage codes, can come and go depending on the heating and expansion of the modules, or they can be there all the time.
In the last few weeks we have two problems at least where it has been shown not to be the 12 volt battery after many (including you) have said it was.
I am not saying 12 volt battery never fail, but any battery less than 5 years old I would find it highly suspect that it was the problem and not a symptom.
Unless a battery has been charged, checked and proven to be faulty, recommending replacement is premature.
knightmb
Well-known member
Your time on the forum is relevant because after you spend a decade here and read a hundred topics about a bad 12V causing issues, it's just a go to by habit. 
I agree, blaming the 12V battery all the time is not the right approach and telling someone to just replace it seems kind like a lazy response, but it is often the solution so some of the older members kind of copy/paste that response from their brain when they see similar symptoms here.
I'm glad you have detailed knowledge of the SLA universe because what you wrote is what is often used to confirm that the Leaf has poor charging algorithm when it comes to keeping a SLA battery healthy in regards to capacity damage.
My personal experience fixing Leaf EV is that the last two I repaired recently had a dead 12V battery.
Each time the symptoms can be totally random depending on how weak the 12V battery is, ranging from "dash flashes and beeps a bunch of times, then starts" to "was working fine this summer but now it won't start in the winter". Both of those times, they took the battery into an auto-parts store to test the 12V battery and it passed the "load" test, but no one ever does a capacity test. So yeah, we are bias against the 12V battery, probably more than we should be.
That's why it's good to have you here with a fresh perspective.
I agree, blaming the 12V battery all the time is not the right approach and telling someone to just replace it seems kind like a lazy response, but it is often the solution so some of the older members kind of copy/paste that response from their brain when they see similar symptoms here.
I'm glad you have detailed knowledge of the SLA universe because what you wrote is what is often used to confirm that the Leaf has poor charging algorithm when it comes to keeping a SLA battery healthy in regards to capacity damage.
My personal experience fixing Leaf EV is that the last two I repaired recently had a dead 12V battery.
Each time the symptoms can be totally random depending on how weak the 12V battery is, ranging from "dash flashes and beeps a bunch of times, then starts" to "was working fine this summer but now it won't start in the winter". Both of those times, they took the battery into an auto-parts store to test the 12V battery and it passed the "load" test, but no one ever does a capacity test. So yeah, we are bias against the 12V battery, probably more than we should be.
That's why it's good to have you here with a fresh perspective.
As someone who has been paid to fix things for over 50 years, I know to confirm the item in question before replacing it. Confirm that it is the problem.
do you concede the point that disconnecting the 12 volt battery erases the trouble codes?
do you concede the point that if the 12 volt battery were the problem, that simply attaching a booster with jumper cables or a battery charger would eliminate the problem if it were the 12 volt? there by ruling in or out a low battery supply. A quick simple confirmation that for whatever reason, it wasn't receiving enough 12 volt current, but no one suggest this simple test. It still doesn't mean the battery is at fault, but at least you know where to start looking. I find it funny no one suggests that!
I can cause a "no start" (no ready) by simply trying to put it in gear before it has finished its self check.
There are many ways the system can be confused just by not letting it finish, some of those can trip an interlock which will prevent it going to ready, and by removing the 12 volt supply, you reset, whether if it is to install a new battery or just to re attach the old one, makes no difference.
If it will go though the self test and will move out of park, but not into gear, it is NOT the 12 volt, it has pulled in the main contactor and it is something else that is not allowing it into ready mode.
The main loads on the 12 volt are the main contactor, park pawl motor and only once in ready mode, the steering and brake assist, although these don't come into play right away.
It is very evident to me that many have not bothered to download and read the service manuals that are available for free. These very same people seam to feel they know more than those who have read the manual, although they can't come up with documented proof of what they say. (not pointing at you, but in general)
Most of the situations where "battery replacement" is being recommended are classic signs of an interlock being tripped and preventing it from going into ready mode. If it was a one off com glitch, re-setting (erasing the code) would allow the system to go to ready. You can do that by erasing the code with the OBD 2 scanner or by removing the 12 volt, either way, once the code is gone, the start will happen. If however it is a more serious problem, like HV isolation leak, then the code will not clear, or will return on start, and the interlock will remain, no matter how many 12 volt batteries you put in.
If you treat the symptom but not the root cause, it will keep coming back.
The 12 volt battery in the Leaf has one of the easiest duties there is, no glow plugs followed by cranking a diesel, no being shoved up against a hot engine or radiator and no high current loads.
To suggest that Nissan engineers don't know how to charge a lead acid battery, but people here know better is laughable. The service the battery is in is different than most here are familiar with, so don't look to what you old car did and say that is the best way to do it on a Leaf.
We have people at both ends of the spectrum, those that say the Leaf charging system and battery are useless and need constant changing, and those that hook 1000 watt inverters to the exact same and claim no problems.
Except in very rare occasions, before I change a part, it is confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the CAUSE of the problem.
The list of codes that will trip a fail-safe or interlock is a long one, and a little "noise" on the com bus can cause an intermittent or one off problem, that can lock off a function.
I currently have three of the batteries that the Leaf uses in my stable, They vary in age but have yet to have one fail. Two of them are in much more demanding applications than the Leaf.
Over the years I have worked on all kinds of equipment from industrial, aircraft, power generation, motor vehicles, just about anything, and no one like someone who replaces parts and doesn't fix the problem. Do too much of it and you'll be out of a job in the better shops. Diagnoses is difficult and can be time consuming, and often isn't compensated well in commercial shops, but that is no excuse for not doing it and just throwing parts at the problem.
I'm sure I will rub some the wrong way, but I will not agree just to get along. Most cases I'll back up a claim with the documentation, in cases of how things work. In cases of helping people, it is more difficult, they are with the car and we are limited by what they see and relate. We just had one where there are differing ideas on what it means to "turn on" or "start".
do you concede the point that disconnecting the 12 volt battery erases the trouble codes?
do you concede the point that if the 12 volt battery were the problem, that simply attaching a booster with jumper cables or a battery charger would eliminate the problem if it were the 12 volt? there by ruling in or out a low battery supply. A quick simple confirmation that for whatever reason, it wasn't receiving enough 12 volt current, but no one suggest this simple test. It still doesn't mean the battery is at fault, but at least you know where to start looking. I find it funny no one suggests that!
I can cause a "no start" (no ready) by simply trying to put it in gear before it has finished its self check.
There are many ways the system can be confused just by not letting it finish, some of those can trip an interlock which will prevent it going to ready, and by removing the 12 volt supply, you reset, whether if it is to install a new battery or just to re attach the old one, makes no difference.
If it will go though the self test and will move out of park, but not into gear, it is NOT the 12 volt, it has pulled in the main contactor and it is something else that is not allowing it into ready mode.
The main loads on the 12 volt are the main contactor, park pawl motor and only once in ready mode, the steering and brake assist, although these don't come into play right away.
It is very evident to me that many have not bothered to download and read the service manuals that are available for free. These very same people seam to feel they know more than those who have read the manual, although they can't come up with documented proof of what they say. (not pointing at you, but in general)
Most of the situations where "battery replacement" is being recommended are classic signs of an interlock being tripped and preventing it from going into ready mode. If it was a one off com glitch, re-setting (erasing the code) would allow the system to go to ready. You can do that by erasing the code with the OBD 2 scanner or by removing the 12 volt, either way, once the code is gone, the start will happen. If however it is a more serious problem, like HV isolation leak, then the code will not clear, or will return on start, and the interlock will remain, no matter how many 12 volt batteries you put in.
If you treat the symptom but not the root cause, it will keep coming back.
The 12 volt battery in the Leaf has one of the easiest duties there is, no glow plugs followed by cranking a diesel, no being shoved up against a hot engine or radiator and no high current loads.
To suggest that Nissan engineers don't know how to charge a lead acid battery, but people here know better is laughable. The service the battery is in is different than most here are familiar with, so don't look to what you old car did and say that is the best way to do it on a Leaf.
We have people at both ends of the spectrum, those that say the Leaf charging system and battery are useless and need constant changing, and those that hook 1000 watt inverters to the exact same and claim no problems.
Except in very rare occasions, before I change a part, it is confirmed beyond a shadow of a doubt that it is the CAUSE of the problem.
The list of codes that will trip a fail-safe or interlock is a long one, and a little "noise" on the com bus can cause an intermittent or one off problem, that can lock off a function.
I currently have three of the batteries that the Leaf uses in my stable, They vary in age but have yet to have one fail. Two of them are in much more demanding applications than the Leaf.
Over the years I have worked on all kinds of equipment from industrial, aircraft, power generation, motor vehicles, just about anything, and no one like someone who replaces parts and doesn't fix the problem. Do too much of it and you'll be out of a job in the better shops. Diagnoses is difficult and can be time consuming, and often isn't compensated well in commercial shops, but that is no excuse for not doing it and just throwing parts at the problem.
I'm sure I will rub some the wrong way, but I will not agree just to get along. Most cases I'll back up a claim with the documentation, in cases of how things work. In cases of helping people, it is more difficult, they are with the car and we are limited by what they see and relate. We just had one where there are differing ideas on what it means to "turn on" or "start".
Bombastinator2
Well-known member
- Joined
- Jan 3, 2024
- Messages
- 315
I have that happen when I start the car but don’t hold the brake down when I do it. May be an “oops” or there’s something wrong with that system. Usually when it happens I can just hold the brake all the way to the floor and hit the button again. It reboots again and then it works. Dunno if that’s helpful or not.
This is my initial approach also, except that i like to see the battery checked and verified as being good in order to rule it out as a culprit.
Until the battery is known to be a good and fully charged, it is Suspect especially if:
it is winter and we have had a cold spell;
the car has set up for a week or more;
the battery is over a year old;
the owner is a new member;
the report is no start or no charge.
Why? Because the 13.0 VDC that the laef DCDC converter holds on the battery most of the time is not helpful to desulfate the plates, so a laef battery degrades quicker over time even though it doesn't have to supply the high CCA of an ICE car.
Because the low loads allow a degraded battery to "function normally" even when it has dropped to 5-10% capacity remaining. This is why a capacity test is needed to verify that a battery is "good"
Because a 95% degraded battery can still show 12.5 OCV and can still Start a laef. But this system voltage can be instantly pulled below the low voltage cutoff of the power supplies inside ECUs, or release relays or main contactors when something loads it, such as the brake pedal is pressed and the big capacitor bank for the master cylinder is recharged, or the blower fan is turned up to High, high beams turned on, etc.
Imagine what codes might be thrown if this ECU (the VCM) has a LV ps drop out during driving or charging:
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