Can't charge 2012 Leaf on 240V, but can on 208V.

[GregH]

Just out of curiosity, what is the max AC a Leaf wants to see or will charge on? !

293V

 

[GregH]

Ugh.. this is going to be a challenge.. I talked to the service guys at Tustin Nissan and they don't seem to appreciate the difference between line voltage (208 vs 240) and the brand of EVSE. I tried to explain how the EVSE is not the issue and it's a matter of measuring line voltage but some of these guys don't seem to be aware of the difference between 208 and 240 for L2 charging. My hope is to take the car in on Wednesday and have them do a Consult Freeze Frame Data snapshot of my car charging vs one of their cars charging.. that should show a dramatic difference on the "AC Input Voltage". But I'm still left with: "Well, it charges ok here (at the dealership, on 208V) so the problem must be with at your house". sigh. ...

Can you get to somebody's house, preferable someone who bought the AV EVSE? Then you can at least report that it is failing at multiple residences, and on "their" EVSE.

Greg, if you need to show that it doesn't charge on an AV EVSE on 240, you can use my AV unit. Just PM me.

Actually that's a mighty fine offer! I might take you up on it.. I could video record the failure and show the Nissan guys...

 

[GregH]

Oddly it seems to be charging faster than I would have expected L1. Last night I got a 60% charge in under 8 hours. I'm surprised I didn't pop a breaker. Is it at all possible that the 2011/12 OBC does NOT measure line current?

No, that's just what the effect of a shrinking battery does for you. Used to take me 3.5-4 hours to charge from LBW to 80%. Now it takes less than 3 hours!

Doh!! Hey I still have 61+Ah! Hmm.. I'll try to get some better measurements... and probably check to see if that's on a 15A to 20A breaker :/

If it really thought it was getting 170V and told to charge at 12A by the pilot PWM (it does think it's on a normal charge btw.. not a trickle charge) would it charge at 2kW AC (170x12) on the line side? It seems to be putting out closer to 1500W DC to the pack rather than 1000W or 1200W.... ?

No, electricity doesn't work that way. Your car only gets utility line voltage (~120V) no matter what. And it won't exceed the 12A dictated by the EVSE, either.

The charger clearly knows the DC voltage and current.. and a faulty AC line voltage. But I can't tell from any of the Consult data that it's actually measuring the current into the charger. My implication was that the faulty line voltage reading might cause it to pull more than the 12A the pilot PWM is telling it to.. If it knows the DC voltage, DC current, AC voltage, and charger efficiency then it wouldn't HAVE to measure line current, it could come up with a close approximation. That would be pretty cheap on their part and unlikely I guess. But suppose it thinks it's on a normal (not 120V) charge at 170V line and the pilot PWM tells it to pull no more than 12A.. It could calculate the expected power draw for the DC side and regulate to that. BTW unlike the 2013s, the 2011/12 OBC seems to only have steps of 1A on the DC output side (not sure if that's requested or measured DC current..)

 

[GregH]

The charger clearly knows the DC voltage and current.. and a faulty AC line voltage. But I can't tell from any of the Consult data that it's actually measuring the current into the charger. My implication was that the faulty line voltage reading might cause it to pull more than the 12A the pilot PWM is telling it to.. If it knows the DC voltage, DC current, AC voltage, and charger efficiency then it wouldn't HAVE to measure line current, it could come up with a close approximation. That would be pretty cheap on their part and unlikely I guess. But suppose it thinks it's on a normal (not 120V) charge at 170V line and the pilot PWM tells it to pull no more than 12A.. It could calculate the expected power draw for the DC side and regulate to that. BTW unlike the 2013s, the 2011/12 OBC seems to only have steps of 1A on the DC output side (not sure if that's requested or measured DC current..)

Last night plugged into L1 (120V) at 91 Gids.. 8 hours later the car was "full" at 252 Gids. Not sure when it finished, but that's at least 20 Gids/hr on L1!! As I noted before, the car doesn't think it's on L1, it thinks it's L2 @ 170V, 12A EVSE limit... but it must be drawing more than 12A because I know the voltage is 120V.

Also, special thanks to Boomer23 for use of his 240V AV EVSE so I could video the failure on Nissan spec equipment for the good folks at Tustin Nissan.

 

[RegGuheert]

Just out of curiosity, what is the max AC a Leaf wants to see or will charge on? !

293V

But note that the EVSEUpgrade power supply is only rated for 250VAC. That's what Phil puts on the sticker, anyway. Perhaps he can tell us if that is the actual limit or if it can take more voltage than that. Mine has probably seen around 256 VAC and it is still ticking!

Last night plugged into L1 (120V) at 91 Gids.. 8 hours later the car was "full" at 252 Gids. Not sure when it finished, but that's at least 20 Gids/hr on L1!! As I noted before, the car doesn't think it's on L1, it thinks it's L2 @ 170V, 12A EVSE limit... but it must be drawing more than 12A because I know the voltage is 120V.

It sounds like a fire hazard to me!

One question for GregH: Do you have the P3227 update installed? The reason I ask is that it was supposed to make the older LEAFs have the same "compatibility" with EVSEs that the 2013s have. This always sounded like a bad idea to me since the 2013s have had so many charger failures. I'm just wondering if this problem could be the result of issues with the new firmware.

 

[GregH]

First thing they did at the dealership when I complained about not being able to charge was upgrade me to P3227. That didn't fix the faulty OBC line voltage reading which no doubt is a hardware failure (probably a 1 cent component). Even though my OBC thinks it is seeing 270-293V in reality it's never getting more than 240V in.. it's just the faulty OBC line voltage reading. Just today we tried charging my Leaf from an ACP eBox in UPS mode. Putting out 208V (205V as measure by a Fluke meter), my OBC saw it as 286V and charged for about 15 seconds before giving up (during that time we measure 18A on the line, although the EVSE upgrade was reporting 17A capability). The utility voltage here is 208V and the Leaf shows 270V and charges fine. We have a Clipper Creek EVSE here that is boosted with a transformer up to 235V... My Leaf won't charge on that one. Just as it won't charge at home on 240V L2.

The 1.5kW charging on L1 is a bit concerning though and I hear what you're saying about a fire hazard. I've looked at the plugs and seen no sign of problems but I'll check again tonight as well as double checking the breaker. I'd rather have my old 3.3kW 240V than the funky 1.5kW 120V.

 

[GregH]

Got it plugged into a standard Panasonic L1 EVSE at Tustin Nissan and on the Consult tool saw it read 173V. Actually for a few seconds it went back to 120V but then drifted back up to 173V. As best I can tell from the service manual, AC lines go right into the charger. So whatever is messed up, it's inside the box. Technician and head service manager were witness. Looks like I'll get a new OBC out of this once they've done all the paperwork to get one for me.

Oh and the L1 charging at 120V (err, seen as 173V L2) actually charges at nearly 24 Gids/hour (!!!) That's better than half what it does at 240V normal L2. The cord gets warm but the plug looks ok and its on a 20A breaker. I guess it'll do until I can get the OBC replaced and use my L2 EVSE again. Really surprised the OBC doesn't read line current.. or at least doesn't have a software feedback control loop for it. Shocking

 

[GregH]

Got it plugged into a standard Panasonic L1 EVSE at Tustin Nissan and on the Consult tool saw it read 173V. Actually for a few seconds it went back to 120V but then drifted back up to 173V. As best I can tell from the service manual, AC lines go right into the charger. So whatever is messed up, it's inside the box. Technician and head service manager were witness. Looks like I'll get a new OBC out of this once they've done all the paperwork to get one for me.

Oh and the L1 charging at 120V (err, seen as 173V L2) actually charges at nearly 24 Gids/hour (!!!) That's better than half what it does at 240V normal L2. The cord gets warm but the plug looks ok and its on a 20A breaker. I guess it'll do until I can get the OBC replaced and use my L2 EVSE again. Really surprised the OBC doesn't read line current.. or at least doesn't have a software feedback control loop for it. Shocking

Update.. Talked to Rick Enriquez, the head service manager at Tustin Nissan (and witness to my OBC problem measuring 173V on 120VAC) and it sounds like he's bumped it up to the main Leaf service group at Nissan. Unfortunately due to the holidays he doesn't think we'll hear back from anyone until early next week. So far my Frankenstein modified 14-50 (single leg) to 120V + unmodified L1 Panasonic EVSE system seems to be working ok and staying relatively cool at home (Full charge, 200 Gids or so, in about 8 hours). Hopefully between me in CA and Pipcecil in TX (with the same problem), we can get someone's attention at Nissan next week.

 

[smkettner]

Perhaps some sense resistor in the OBC to measure line voltage got slightly tweaked?!?!? Very odd failure though..

A hand held multimeter will tend to read high when the internal battery gets low. Probably a longshot.

 

[Stoaty]

Update.. Talked to Rick Enriquez, the head service manager at Tustin Nissan (and witness to my OBC problem measuring 173V on 120VAC) and it sounds like he's bumped it up to the main Leaf service group at Nissan. Unfortunately due to the holidays he doesn't think we'll hear back from anyone until early next week.

Last update was over a month ago. Anything further to report?

 

[GregH]

Update.. Talked to Rick Enriquez, the head service manager at Tustin Nissan (and witness to my OBC problem measuring 173V on 120VAC) and it sounds like he's bumped it up to the main Leaf service group at Nissan. Unfortunately due to the holidays he doesn't think we'll hear back from anyone until early next week.

Last update was over a month ago. Anything further to report?

Yeah.. Last Thursday they had me bring in the car (again) so they could "record" the data to upload to the mother ship at Nissan in order to get permission to order a new charger.
Charger ordered, received a few days ago. I took the car in yesterday morning and the played with it for 8 hours but still didn't have it installed (grrr) so now I'm in an Altima with no HOV stickers (obviously) and they're on day #2 trying to figure out how to install a 2011/12 OBC. Fingers crossed that happens by 5pm today..

 

[GregH]

As of tonight.. 120V = 120V and 240V = 240V. I can now charge at 3.3kW and home!
finally..

 

[Pipcecil]

YEA! finally! Congradulations!

 

[RegGuheert]

Congratulations, Greg!

That was easy! :roll:

Thanks for keeping us informed as this issue progressed.

 

[Stoaty]

As of tonight.. 120V = 120V and 240V = 240V. I can now charge at 3.3kW and home!
finally..

Thanks for teaching Nissan how to diagnose this problem! The knowledge will come in handy when it happens to other Leafs.