Can we avoid the EVSE altogether?

[DrRocket]

Could one purchase the $250 Yazaki 25 foot cord with J1772 and connect the other end to a NEMA 14-50 and just plug it into the 14-50 receptacle?

Does the Leaf's onboard charger require the pilot signal from the EVSE? If yes, it is just simple current that one could send down those wires with a resistor in series?

If the above would work, how would the safety be any different from all the power tools and welders found on construction sites all over the country?

 

[lincomatic]

Sorry, but your idea won't work. The leaf requires the J1772 pilot to charge. I guess you could probably fool it with a square wave oscillator, but it would be dangerous.

 

[Volusiano]

I don't even understand why the OP bother asking the question in the first place, then asks whether this would compromise safety? Of course avoiding EVSE altogether would compromise safety, otherwise why would EVSE be built in the first place? It wasn't built for fun or so companies can gouge EV drivers for no reasons.

Instead of asking whether we can avoid EVSE altogether, maybe we should ask why are EVSE so expensive? If someone knowledgeable (like Phil) were to build a DIY one for himself with the minimum feature required, just for safety only and don't need anything else fancy, what is required and how much it would cost?

 

[awallis]

I don't even understand why the OP bother asking the question in the first place, then asks whether this would compromise safety? Of course avoiding EVSE altogether would compromise safety, otherwise why would EVSE be built in the first place? It wasn't built for fun or so companies can gouge EV drivers for no reasons.

Instead of asking whether we can avoid EVSE altogether, maybe we should ask why are EVSE so expensive? If someone knowledgeable (like Phil) were to build a DIY one for himself with the minimum feature required, just for safety only and don't need anything else fancy, what is required and how much it would cost?

It's not cheap. If you buy high-quality parts, it's at least a 600-700 dollar build. Prices on the models (Leviton, aerovironment) will only start coming down when they begin making these things 500,000 or million at a time, and even then it will take a while for the internals to come down for the rest of us non-bulk buyers. Certainly some folks will find deals on j1772's or on high-quality, steel NEMA enclosures, but for most folks most of the time, it's still cheaper to buy a pre-made product. All that said, these are not complicated devices and it's simply good, solid internals that cost money. Also, I don't own a dedicated 220 charger and I would really like to build my own, so I'm waiting for some experiments here and elsewhere to come to fruition.

Can you build it cheap? Sure, but your 14ga extension cord kludged to a j1772 is going to get quite warm to the touch, especially as you run it 100 feet from the dryer outlet on the other side of your house. </just kidding> Seriously, if you look here (http://www.tucsonev.com/), you'll find that the plug and cord alone go for 250 dollars. In a year, that might be 195, if we're lucky, and truth be told, cords are quite simply expensive because they optimally have a lot of copper and tough shielding.

The best deal on the market: Ingineer's upgrade!

 

[lincomatic]

This guy on the Tesla list built a pilot-only implementation, as I described above. I don't recommend doing it, but he posted both schematics and code.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...aste/page5?s=3c2f399ca6898619c9d87dcda5262531

 

[lincomatic]

It's not cheap. If you buy high-quality parts, it's at least a 600-700 dollar build. Prices on the models (Leviton, aerovironment) will only start coming down when they begin making these things 500,000 or million at a time, and even then it will take a while for the internals to come down for the rest of us non-bulk buyers. Certainly some folks will find deals on j1772's or on high-quality, steel NEMA enclosures, but for most folks most of the time, it's still cheaper to buy a pre-made product. All that said, these are not complicated devices and it's simply good, solid internals that cost money. Also, I don't own a dedicated 220 charger and I would really like to build my own, so I'm waiting for some experiments here and elsewhere to come to fruition.

I'd like to know where you got the estimate of $600-700 cost to build an EVSE. And you speak of steel NEMA enclosures... many if not most of the home EVSE's use plastic. The control circuitry is easily implemented with less than $100 worth of parts, and even though it costs us $300 to buy the J1772 plug and cable in single quantities, they can be bought directly from the factories for far less than half that cost. I strongly disagree that "good solid internals cost money." The internals are not that expensive. I think much of the cost is due to engineering, marketing, and regulatory testing costs.

 

[TomT]

I took a look at it and it is most interesting. I can see it having a purpose as long as the user well understands the limitations and dangers.

This guy on the Tesla list built a pilot-only implementation, as I described above. I don't recommend doing it, but he posted both schematics and code.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...aste/page5?s=3c2f399ca6898619c9d87dcda5262531

 

[adric22]

Sort of reminds me of when I worked at a computer store many, many years ago. On more than one occasion I had people who, for one reason or another, took the little DC barrel connector for their laptop computer and wired it straight to a 110V plug. The connected their laptop that way. They couldn't figure out why it fried their laptop.

Obviously, this i a bit different as the voltage is not the issue in this case. But it still reminds me of that.

On the same token, I've found an official photo or two of the Volt showing a straight cord from the wall socket to the J1772, no doubt photoshopped.

 

[JPWhite]

This guy on the Tesla list built a pilot-only implementation, as I described above. I don't recommend doing it, but he posted both schematics and code.

http://www.teslamotorsclub.com/show...aste/page5?s=3c2f399ca6898619c9d87dcda5262531

Thanks for sharing this link. I found this information to be quite helpful. I am not sure that this is something that I would attempt personally, but I still appreciate the knowledge. I just got a electric vehicle for my business, and was wondering if anyone has any suggestions as to where I can go for some Vehicle Wraps? I want the vehicle to look very professional in appearance, and I was not very satisfied with the work that I had seen done by some of the places in my area. I am really wanting this vehicle to stand out from the crowd, so if you have any suggestions, please let me know. Thank you!

Contact Schneider Electric In Nashville. They have a wrapped LEAF in their corporate fleet. They can tell you wheer they got theirs made/installed.

 

[AmpUpCO]

Non-techno poster here,

The EVSE unit really isn't that large, why not incorporate it in the car? That way a standard plug could be used. No?

 

[EVDRIVER]

Non-techno poster here,

The EVSE unit really isn't that large, why not incorporate it in the car? That way a standard plug could be used. No?

Because it needs to be outside the car. It provides protection for the line to the car and every EVSE can have a different circuit capacity based on the service on the site, the EVSE sends that signal to the charger of the car.

 

[AmpUpCO]

Thank you, EVDRIVER, that makes sense.

In other words, the EVSE in dependent on the particular power provided at the source, and it is not capable of manipulating the power or adjusting it to the multitude of variable sources the vehicle might be connected to...

Is that right?

 

[cwerdna]

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=26&t=4056" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; was where this topic was discussed before.

 

[EVDRIVER]

Thank you, EVDRIVER, that makes sense.

In other words, the EVSE in dependent on the particular power provided at the source, and it is not capable of manipulating the power or adjusting it to the multitude of variable sources the vehicle might be connected to...

Is that right?

20-40-100A circuit, the EVSE tells the charger "what's up" and the charger pulls the max allowed. If the car has a 100A charger and the EVSE can only supply 20A then it the charger will draw 20A not 100. There is GFCI protection in the EVSE to protect the wire from the wall to the car for water and shorts. It does a little more but that's the main thing, safety and proper supply communication and on/off control.