Buying a 2014 LEAF - please help me assess my LEAF SPY results

[TronJockey]

Update - I managed to get my hands on an OBDII adaptor.. AND IT WORKED!

I'd really appreciate comments on the Leaf Spy screenshots in the file below:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Aopkn3DAaPS9N3fAhrY7YMnQHud7lWlf?usp=sharing@Turbo3, thanks for the great app!

More context on the car...
This is the link to the online advert:
https://www.lithiafordboise.com/use...oise-ID-f2774df30a0e0a940703aba763ba882d.htm#And this is the CarFax:
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHisto...fjuPh1jS0V9FdSbWeL1XmI3sH0pzrh-oT6IrbLEtY_0ykOne big question about the CarFax is how little maintenance has been done on the car.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts/feedback on this car. I'm hoping to buy it tomorrow.

75% SOH is not bad for a 2014 with

Update - I managed to get my hands on an OBDII adaptor.. AND IT WORKED!

I'd really appreciate comments on the Leaf Spy screenshots in the file below:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Aopkn3DAaPS9N3fAhrY7YMnQHud7lWlf?usp=sharing@Turbo3, thanks for the great app!

More context on the car...
This is the link to the online advert:
https://www.lithiafordboise.com/use...oise-ID-f2774df30a0e0a940703aba763ba882d.htm#And this is the CarFax:
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHisto...fjuPh1jS0V9FdSbWeL1XmI3sH0pzrh-oT6IrbLEtY_0ykOne big question about the CarFax is how little maintenance has been done on the car.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts/feedback on this car. I'm hoping to buy it tomorrow.

Update - I managed to get my hands on an OBDII adaptor.. AND IT WORKED!

I'd really appreciate comments on the Leaf Spy screenshots in the file below:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Aopkn3DAaPS9N3fAhrY7YMnQHud7lWlf?usp=sharing@Turbo3, thanks for the great app!

More context on the car...
This is the link to the online advert:
https://www.lithiafordboise.com/use...oise-ID-f2774df30a0e0a940703aba763ba882d.htm#And this is the CarFax:
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHisto...fjuPh1jS0V9FdSbWeL1XmI3sH0pzrh-oT6IrbLEtY_0ykOne big question about the CarFax is how little maintenance has been done on the car.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts/feedback on this car. I'm hoping to buy it tomorrow.

74% SOH on a 2014 with 71k on the clock is not bad at all. And 17mv balance between all cells is very good as well. The HV battery appears to be in good shape for its age and the fact that it's only a 24kWh pack. I recently sold my 2015 with 62k miles and 83% SOH so yours would seem on target. Some things to keep in mind on these 24kWh packs. Don't charge them to 100% and leave them for any period of time. If you must charge to 100% then drive the vehicle within an hour or two. Many owners will stick them on an L1 or L2 charger when they get home on a Friday night and not use the vehicle until Monday morning. This will accelerate degradation. A small amount of degradation but it's cumulative. This is especially true for 2011 and some 2012 models since the early BMS algorithms allowed charging to a true 100% (later models will indicate 100% but really only allow charging to roughly 90%). Charging ternary Li-ion batteries to a true 100% is well known to accelerate degradation. I'd shoot for keeping a Leaf between 15% and 85% SOC. Since these are not liquid cooled it's best to avoid any DC Fast charging especially in hot weather. DC Fast charging raises the battery's internal temperature especially if repeatedly done on a long trip. Also, extended periods of high-speed cruising (80mph or more) will raise battery core temperatures considerably on a small battery pack like this. The battery pack cells are arranged in a 96S-2P configuration with 66aH divided essentially between two paths. The Alaska Center for Energy and Power (ACEP) did a study using the Nissan Leaf and found some interesting concerns involving the Leafs use in cold weather. They found that all charging below 49F should be restricted to L1 and L2 to best preserve the battery. Some interesting reading for any Leaf owner.
https://www.uaf.edu/acep/files/projects/Cold-Weather-Issues-for-EVs-in-Alaska.pdf

 

[dsevier]

I wrote this before seeing OP's update. Good luck... but for posterity I will post the below...

If you have 11 out of 12 on a 9 yo LEAF that is almost too good to be true. However if it is true you have a good battery pack.... LEAF SPY is pretty easy. You have to buy a WiFi OBDII dongle... but the right one. You have to throw a few bucks at the App developer. That is it. I don't know if there is some way to fake the battery reserve indicator on the dash.... but yes LEAF SPY would be nice. You will be looking for the individual cell voltage. They should not be below average by too much. What is that? I don't know but you will know it when you see it. Again 11 bars chance of having dead cell or cells is low... provided the dash indicator is right. Like I said I am suspicious.. How many miles?

I bought my early 2015 end of 2017 (it was 3 yrs old) forget the mileage but lets say low mid 20K, and 12 bars... it went to 11 pretty quick.. Now after owning 6 yrs (9 total age) I have 10 bars and on a good day 80 mi indicated range. I have not used my LEAF SPY in over a year. I did mess with it for new tires a two yrs ago. I now have about 43K miles. As a second car I do about 3K to 3.5K miles a year. Great for going to the store...

Most of my trips are 18 to 20 miles round trp. So 80 mile range (real 60 miles with cold weather and having some reserve when I get home) is enough. It will start to be not practical when it gets to 50 miles (30 usable with reserve). Assuming a linear decline in range I have another 9 years of use? At that point it will be 18 yrs old and about 80K miles. Not great but at that point sell it cheap or part it out. If there is some cheap replacement for the drive battery I might consider it. The BODY and interior is holding up nice. I can see it going way more than 18 yea

I wrote this before seeing OP's update. Good luck... but for posterity I will post the below...

If you have 11 out of 12 on a 9 yo LEAF that is almost too good to be true. However if it is true you have a good battery pack.... LEAF SPY is pretty easy. You have to buy a WiFi OBDII dongle... but the right one. You have to throw a few bucks at the App developer. That is it. I don't know if there is some way to fake the battery reserve indicator on the dash.... but yes LEAF SPY would be nice. You will be looking for the individual cell voltage. They should not be below average by too much. What is that? I don't know but you will know it when you see it. Again 11 bars chance of having dead cell or cells is low... provided the dash indicator is right. Like I said I am suspicious.. How many miles?

I bought my early 2015 end of 2017 (it was 3 yrs old) forget the mileage but lets say low mid 20K, and 12 bars... it went to 11 pretty quick.. Now after owning 6 yrs (9 total age) I have 10 bars and on a good day 80 mi indicated range. I have not used my LEAF SPY in over a year. I did mess with it for new tires a two yrs ago. I now have about 43K miles. As a second car I do about 3K to 3.5K miles a year. Great for going to the store...

Most of my trips are 18 to 20 miles round trp. So 80 mile range (real 60 miles with cold weather and having some reserve when I get home) is enough. It will start to be not practical when it gets to 50 miles (30 usable with reserve). Assuming a linear decline in range I have another 9 years of use? At that point it will be 18 yrs old and about 80K miles. Not great but at that point sell it cheap or part it out. If there is some cheap replacement for the drive battery I might consider it. The BODY and interior is holding up nice. I can see it going way more than 18 years.

With our 2014 Leaf, we bought it at 67k miles. It only has the basic charge port so no fast charging. Also we're at 79% so on the cusp of going to 10 bars. Our range says 82 mi at full charge but we would never push past 50 and avoid the freeway at that. Thanks to this forum I used LeafSpy to assess batt health. There were 3 Gen1 LEAFs at the dealer, we bought the one with the best capacity and little cell variation. However I did not measure while driving or just after as recommended . For our purpose (5-15 mi/day, charging to 80% every other day from a 120V outlet in garage), it's been great for us.

 

[seema]

I would also check the history on whether or not the Air Conditioner freon has been recharged. It's supposed to be recharged every two years and if it doesn't get done the Air conditioner compressor can break inside and also kill your heating. I had this happen on my second hand 2018 leaf and the repair bill is $11K. Not to be trifled with. Also, I had no idea that this was a thing. Take it to a dealer and pay the money to get the diagnostic on the car including the air con system and get it recharged with refrigerant.

 

[Aardvark]

I would also check the history on whether or not the Air Conditioner freon has been recharged. It's supposed to be recharged every two years and if it doesn't get done the Air conditioner compressor can break inside and also kill your heating. I had this happen on my second hand 2018 leaf and the repair bill is $11K. Not to be trifled with. Also, I had no idea that this was a thing. Take it to a dealer and pay the money to get the diagnostic on the car including the air con system and get it recharged with refrigerant.

Whoa... Why is nobody talking about that on the forum?
The CarFAx doesn't say anything about Freon replacement, so I don't know whether it has or hasn't been replaced.
Do you have a cost estimate on this?

 

[IAMTHESTIG]

Most maintenance isn’t going to show up on carfax unless it was done at a manufacturer dealer AND they chose to document it for the carfax system.

As for AC refrigerant most people don’t do this until they have problems. I’ve not heard of this being critical to the Leaf but even if it is go get it done if you think it haven’t been done. I’d have a dealer do it and have the completely purge the system and do a fresh fill. A lot of little shops that “work on AC” will just add some refrigerant which can cause problems.

 

[jim0266]

For comparison, my 2014 Leaf at 41K miles is at 77% SOH. I've treated the battery very well since I purchased it used with 8,700 miles in 2017. At the time LeafSpy reported 100% SOH. I'm located in the midwest for temperature comparisons. I would say compared to mine yours is holding up well. Mine only has L2 charging.

 

[dsevier]

@Stanton I just read up a little about the OVMS conversion. I don't have time to go deep right now (will check in again tonight), but it seems that the bottom line is that it would cost about $500 to update the car's modem to 4G which would allow me to pre-heat the car each morning before work while it is plugged in - which would mean that I arrive to a nice warm car WITH A FULL BATTERY?!!
Could you please confirm that I am understanding correctly? This would be a game changer.

It seems that althoguh the second car looks more run down (ugly upholstery, scratches, dings, more miles, older, etc.) it is the better option in terms of battery health and functionality (cruise control and OVMS update).
... So I think I will be buying option number 2...

Thanks for all the helpful insights everybody!

I would be glad to share my thoughts on maintenance for a car that you don't know the history of. Also, our car has the infamous click in the front axle joint. Annoying but not a serious problem. Happens when changing speed (starting, stopping, braking, accelerating). PM if you want help.

 

[cornbinder89]

I would also check the history on whether or not the Air Conditioner freon has been recharged. It's supposed to be recharged every two years and if it doesn't get done the Air conditioner compressor can break inside and also kill your heating. I had this happen on my second hand 2018 leaf and the repair bill is $11K. Not to be trifled with. Also, I had no idea that this was a thing. Take it to a dealer and pay the money to get the diagnostic on the car including the air con system and get it recharged with refrigerant.

The Leaf's AC compressor is a scroll compressor, not much to wear on them, and are used in home heat pumps. Unlike a conventional IC car compressor, with a shaft that has to run to a belt, and a shaft seal that has to hold in the refrigerant, the Leaf's unit is enclosed. Since refrigerant oil moves with the refrigerant, and leak carries refrigerant oil with it. Lack of oil is what kills most car A/C's.
As far as regular re-charge or replacement of refrigerant, There is no reason to do so unless the system is leaking. Opening a sealed system will more likely cause more problems than it solves. If any moisture gets in or the correct amount of oil is not maintained, then I can see a problem.
Checking the operation and for refrigerant loss without opening isn't a bad idea, but servicing by replacing or opening the system? I don't see anyone that would recommend that.
If the system leaks, and some yo-yo keeps topping it up, than yes you are risking a compressor, but if it stays closed and charged it should go more or less defiantly, there is no metal to metal contact on a scroll compressor.

 

[decimal]

Update - I managed to get my hands on an OBDII adaptor.. AND IT WORKED!

I'd really appreciate comments on the Leaf Spy screenshots in the file below:
https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/1Aopkn3DAaPS9N3fAhrY7YMnQHud7lWlf?usp=sharing@Turbo3, thanks for the great app!

More context on the car...
This is the link to the online advert:
https://www.lithiafordboise.com/use...oise-ID-f2774df30a0e0a940703aba763ba882d.htm#And this is the CarFax:
https://www.carfax.com/VehicleHisto...fjuPh1jS0V9FdSbWeL1XmI3sH0pzrh-oT6IrbLEtY_0ykOne big question about the CarFax is how little maintenance has been done on the car.

I'd really appreciate any thoughts/feedback on this car. I'm hoping to buy it tomorrow.

Just as a comparison - I have a 2014 Leaf Tekna (24kWh) with 81,000 miles on the clock.
SOH is reported as 82%. voltage difference between cells varies between 9mV - 18mV.
Battery capacity @ full charge is reported as 18.1 kWh. Battery health shows 11/12 bars, but I expect that to drop to 10 bars at some point in the next few months.

Normal UK temperature range is between 25C (77F, max) and -5C (23F, min). We rarely get extreme hot or cold weather, although it can be unpredictable nowadays.

Charging: mostly done at home using a AC granny cable @ 2.4 kW. Charge limit is set to 80% but once every 2 weeks I do a 'balancing' long charge to 100%. I only rapid charge on CHAdeMO when doing a journey of over 50 miles, which is rare (about every 2-3 months).

No major faults with the EV yet. Tyres have been replaced, and I got a new 12V battery recently when I started having occasional issues with powering-up the car. Brakes are a bit 'jumpy' and will need more work done on them soon. I'm also due to get the suspension strut tops replaced at some point as I can hear creaking when turning the steering wheel at low speeds. No big jobs yet, but then the car has been serviced every year so far.

 

[decimal]

SOH is 74%.
First image.

Would also be useful to know the total battery capacity in kWh

 

[WetEV]

Original usable capacity was about 21 kWh.

0.74 * 21 kWh is about 15.5 kWh

 

[TreacherousPath]

Whoa... Why is nobody talking about that on the forum?
The CarFAx doesn't say anything about Freon replacement, so I don't know whether it has or hasn't been replaced.
Do you have a cost estimate on this?

Yikes, you are scaring me. I have a 2015 that I bought new and I've never even thought about servicing the AC.

 

[dsevier]

Yikes, you are scaring me. I have a 2015 that I bought new and I've never even thought about servicing the AC.

I have the S version so have simple resistive heating in our 2014. Figured simplicity has advantages in an aging car.

 

[LeftieBiker]

If you leave for work at the same time daily, then the climate control timer will be a big help...