Blink / Rav4 Blows Out a Contactor Pin (with gory pics)

[LEAFer]

Here's the best shot I could get this morning. It was raining, so my apologies for the poor quality. This is presumably rated for 32A: {image}

Are they "hiding" (too short to show in the photo) or does this BMW not have pins in the Pilot signal and Proximity pin ? (It is required by the "standard".) ( I remember the Mini-E was a little "off-standard" ignoring pilot signal. )

 

[TonyWilliams]

Here's the best shot I could get this morning. It was raining, so my apologies for the poor quality. This is presumably rated for 32A: {image}

Are they "hiding" (too short to show in the photo) or does this BMW not have pins in the Pilot signal and Proximity pin ? (It is required by the "standard".) ( I remember the Mini-E was a little "off-standard" ignoring pilot signal. )

Good catch. I had to go back and look.... and I don't see anything!

 

[davewill]

Here's the best shot I could get this morning. It was raining, so my apologies for the poor quality. This is presumably rated for 32A: {image}

Are they "hiding" (too short to show in the photo) or does this BMW not have pins in the Pilot signal and Proximity pin ? (It is required by the "standard".) ( I remember the Mini-E was a little "off-standard" ignoring pilot signal. )

Looks to me like a combination of shorter contacts and the smaller diameter of the opening hiding them. It would HAVE to have the pilot pin because that's how the car signals that the EVSE should close it's relays.

 

[TonyWilliams]

More pics here

 

[LEAFer]

Here's the best shot I could get this morning. It was raining, so my apologies for the poor quality. This is presumably rated for 32A: {image}

Are they "hiding" (too short to show in the photo) or does this BMW not have pins in the Pilot signal and Proximity pin ? (It is required by the "standard".) ( I remember the Mini-E was a little "off-standard" ignoring pilot signal. )

Looks to me like a combination of shorter contacts and the smaller diameter of the opening hiding them. It would HAVE to have the pilot pin because that's how the car signals that the EVSE should close it's relays.

Right you are ! So ... at least one of those pins is (and probabaly both are) in hiding due to the photo setup ...

 

[KeiJidosha]

Really would be nice to be able to select current draw from the car for situations like this - IIRC the RAV4-EV and the Fit-EV don't have the capability, correct?

Not an option with Rav4. Don't know about Fit, but I doubt it.

No throttle on the pilot signal for the Fit EV either. (Note to EV manufacturers: I would pay $1k for the option if it showed volts and amps delivered to the car.

 

[smkettner]

Does the vehicle not have pilot signal pins?
Could it be pulling more than 30 amps?

 

[TonyWilliams]

2012-11-24 07:04:54 EST 2012-11-24 11:07:03 EST 27.618 kWh
2012-11-24 12:36:36 EST 2012-11-24 12:36:47 EST 0 kWh
2012-11-24 18:34:46 EST 2012-11-24 18:44:48 EST 0 kWh
2012-11-24 19:34:05 EST 2012-11-24 19:40:19 EST 0 kWh
2012-11-25 13:06:42 EST 2012-11-25 13:10:32 EST 0.333 kWh
2012-11-25 22:36:57 EST 2012-11-26 04:19:04 EST 39.513 kWh
2012-11-26 09:40:51 EST 2012-11-26 10:06:57 EST 0.106 kWh
2012-11-26 11:16:48 EST 2012-11-26 14:11:16 EST 15.362 kWh


Power Flow Details

Start Time: 2012-11-26 11:16:58 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 11:31:59 EST
Average Power: 7.086 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.254 kW
Total Energy: 1.773 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 11:31:59 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 11:47:00 EST
Average Power: 7.15 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.164 kW
Total Energy: 1.79 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 11:47:00 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 12:02:01 EST
Average Power: 7.149 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.164 kW
Total Energy: 1.789 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 12:02:02 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 12:17:03 EST
Average Power: 7.141 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.158 kW
Total Energy: 1.787 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 12:17:03 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 12:32:04 EST
Average Power: 7.147 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.158 kW
Total Energy: 1.789 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 12:32:04 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 12:47:05 EST
Average Power: 7.149 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.152 kW
Total Energy: 1.789 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 12:47:05 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 13:02:06 EST
Average Power: 7.162 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.182 kW
Total Energy: 1.792 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 13:02:06 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 13:17:07 EST
Average Power: 7.011 kW
Max Peak Power: 7.182 kW
Total Energy: 1.755 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 13:17:08 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 13:32:09 EST
Average Power: 4.283 kW
Max Peak Power: 6.318 kW
Total Energy: 1.072 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

Start Time: 2012-11-26 13:32:09 EST
End Time: 2012-11-26 13:32:42 EST
Average Power: 2.743 kW
Max Peak Power: 3.174 kW
Total Energy: 0.025 kWh
kWh Rate: ---

 

[qwk]

This is most likely one of the main reasons that Tesla went with their own plug. J1772 is a pretty piss-poor design for a pure EV with a decent sized battery that wants to charge in a fairly quick manner.

I wonder if instances like this will make Toyota reassess their implementation of J1772, and a switch to Tesla's proprietary design. One could only hope. Then it might be game over for J1772. Using inferior designs only leads to making all EV's look bad.

 

[DaveEV]

This is most likely one of the main reasons that Tesla went with their own plug. J1772 is a pretty piss-poor design for a pure EV with a decent sized battery that wants to charge in a fairly quick manner.

I wonder if instances like this will make Toyota reassess their implementation of J1772, and a switch to Tesla's proprietary design. One could only hope. Then it might be game over for J1772. Using inferior designs only leads to making all EV's look bad.

The Tesla J1772 adapter has another benefit, too - I believe it's all aluminum so it has a good chance of acting like a big heatsink...

But yeah - if these things are burning up on 30A - imagine what 80A will do!

 

[KeiJidosha]

This is most likely one of the main reasons that Tesla went with their own plug. J1772 is a pretty piss-poor design for a pure EV with a decent sized battery that wants to charge in a fairly quick manner.

I wonder if instances like this will make Toyota reassess their implementation of J1772, and a switch to Tesla's proprietary design. One could only hope. Then it might be game over for J1772. Using inferior designs only leads to making all EV's look bad.

The Tesla J1772 adapter has another benefit, too - I believe it's all aluminum so it has a good chance of acting like a big heatsink...

But yeah - if these things are burning up on 30A - imagine what 80A will do!

Drove the MINI E for two years charging the 35kWh battery thru J1772 connectors at 32 amps (50 amps at Rabobank EVSEs) with no problems. Tesla roadsters do the same. I think the lesson is this is a stress point and that the plug and connector need to be well made.

 

[tbleakne]

This is most likely one of the main reasons that Tesla went with their own plug. J1772 is a pretty piss-poor design for a pure EV with a decent sized battery that wants to charge in a fairly quick manner.

I wonder if instances like this will make Toyota reassess their implementation of J1772, and a switch to Tesla's proprietary design. One could only hope. Then it might be game over for J1772. Using inferior designs only leads to making all EV's look bad.

The Tesla J1772 adapter has another benefit, too - I believe it's all aluminum so it has a good chance of acting like a big heatsink...

But yeah - if these things are burning up on 30A - imagine what 80A will do!

I am not sure Tesla wants to share technology with anyone else.

I was told the Tesla HPC connector in the car (not the J1772 adapter) uses silver main power pins. Ag has about twice the conductivity of Cu. I would think they would be silver plated because solid silver would be too soft. These pins have to handle a maximum of over 200A DC when the Tesla SuperCharger is plugged into the same port on the car. When I inspected the port at the showroom, the pins didn't look too much larger than those in the J1772, but it was hard to tell.

Several week ago I viewed a new Model-S owner charging on J1772. The J1772-to-HPC adapter was a very compact cylinder no more than 2 in long. It had a cool LED illumination than pulsated during the charge.

 

[DaveEV]

The Model S Tesla plug is significantly larger than J1772. The power carrying part is similar in size to the power pins on the CHAdeMO connector - big enough to shove your finger into them.

Even the original Roadster Tesla plug has significantly beefier power pins than J1772 - I'd estimate about twice the diameter.

 

[qwk]

This is most likely one of the main reasons that Tesla went with their own plug. J1772 is a pretty piss-poor design for a pure EV with a decent sized battery that wants to charge in a fairly quick manner.

I wonder if instances like this will make Toyota reassess their implementation of J1772, and a switch to Tesla's proprietary design. One could only hope. Then it might be game over for J1772. Using inferior designs only leads to making all EV's look bad.

The Tesla J1772 adapter has another benefit, too - I believe it's all aluminum so it has a good chance of acting like a big heatsink...

But yeah - if these things are burning up on 30A - imagine what 80A will do!

Drove the MINI E for two years charging the 35kWh battery thru J1772 connectors at 32 amps (50 amps at Rabobank EVSEs) with no problems. Tesla roadsters do the same. I think the lesson is this is a stress point and that the plug and connector need to be well made.

Quality parts will help, but in the end with a poor design, they can only take you so far. There aren't very many EV's that can pull more than 30 amps from a J1772 on the roads now except for Roadster's, Model S cars and now the Rav4. Roadsters and S's can use an adapter, but aluminum adapters dissipate heat quite well. Just wait until there are tens of thousands of Ev's pulling close to 80 amps for sustained periods through J1772 plugs. Melted plugs will most likely be very common.


I'm sure that Tesla would share their design....for a price of course. The problem if that happened would be the Tesla standard taking over, and other manufacturers would be at the mercy of Tesla for licensing if EV's become mainstream. A nighmare scenario for existing auto manufacturers. Why do you think inferior standards prevail? It's all about the $$ backing the design.

 

[TEG]

Does the vehicle not have pilot signal pins?...

Yes, it does. See this other picture that Tony posted:

http://s565.photobucket.com/albums/ss92/TonyWilliams/Toyota%20Rav4%20EV/?action=view&current=96079790-FE59-4239-835F-06E13409A81D-1515-000000F29EEB383F.jpg" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[LEAFer]

And I was asking about the picture sufingslovak posted ... and am assuming it's from BMW Active E.

 

[waidy]

Really would be nice to be able to select current draw from the car for situations like this - IIRC the RAV4-EV and the Fit-EV don't have the capability, correct?

Not an option with Rav4. Don't know about Fit, but I doubt it.

Pick up my S this morning. The S has this feature.

 

[surfingslovak]

And I was asking about the picture sufingslovak posted ... and am assuming it's from BMW Active E.

My bad, that wasn't a very good photo. All pins are present, and accounted for. The inlet is indeed on the ActiveE, and it should be rated for 32A. The highest indicated power draw I have seen is 6.4 kW on a Coulomb station somewhere.

Here is the last charge from turtle to full, which took 31.307 KWh. I have seen steadily declining numbers, much like with the Leaf. It's too soon to tell what might be going on. The car has reportedly received a brand new drivetrain, including all traction batteries, in July this year. I'm down about 2.5% since then.

Pick up my S this morning. The S has this feature.

Congrats, Waidy! I believe I heard about this feature earlier, didn't the Roadster have the same thing? I would be curious to know if Tesla charged a destination fee if the car is picked up at the factory in Fremont.

 

[waidy]

Pick up my S this morning. The S has this feature.

Congrats, Waidy! I believe I heard about this feature earlier, didn't the Roadster have the same thing? I would be curious to know if Tesla charged a destination fee if the car is picked up at the factory in Fremont.

Unfortunately Tesla charges $990 delivery charge whether you pick it up at the factory or trucked to your house.

 

[smkettner]

I believe the level destination fee is a Federal law.