battery longevity

[jjdoe]

I realize there are only 4 years of data on these batteries, but what do people suspect they will get, before the battery reserve gets too low?
A different beast, but a friend just replaced the battery on her Prius. At 200,000 miles! I understand Nissan warrants the battery for 8/100k, but what does that mean? My insurance says it will cover my expenses in a storm. But good luck on getting much back from them!
My wife only has a 25mi Atlanta commute, and she can take either car. So we are ideal owners. We are looking at a 13. But in a few years, I don't ever want her to have to decide between AC/heat - or arriving. (or rocking that subwoofer, haha)
I'm asking the unknowable, but does anyone have a Leaf with 50,000 miles? 80k? Has anyone had their battery replaced by Nissan (due to weakening with age?)

I am so impressed with this site. The info, the gizmos you build. Like clever 14yo's, with computers!

 

[Firetruck41]

There are a million threads on this, do a search on battery capacity. Battery capacity is warranted to 5 years/60k miles, and the loss of 4 capacity bars. The 100k warranty is for defects, but reduced capacity is not considered a defect. The 2016 SV and SL will have an 8yr/100k warranty for battery capacity.

 

[LeftieBiker]

The battery pack on the 2015+ models should be good for at least 100k miles (with reduced range, of course), as a few earlier Leafs have made it that far. One Taxi is still showing 12 bars, IIRC, at that mileage, although it's the rare exception. I suggest that, if you like the car and want to own it, you consider a $6-10k replacement pack (depending on capacity) a long-term expense of keeping it, if you want to preserve range.

 

[Graffi]

To answer your question directly, YES the leaf will work for a 25 mile Atlanta commute for many years to come. We have a MY2013 mfg in 8/2015 with 28,000 and almost no range loss, Maybe one mile at most. Earlier models have lost more.

To respond to the other question, in our Leaf we do not see any real range loss using AC or heat. Please let your wife enjoy the comfort of driving.

 

[jjdoe]

Thanks, all. We are going to the EV expo this weekend. Just waiting to take the jump, and find the right car. We're looking for a 13 SL - almost a rarity!
We have been doing lots of research. Way too much! I was looking for some real-world examples. We'll only keep this car a few years, until the next-gen. But only IF it has a safety package. Might look at the Tesla 3, but fear what the options might add up to...
But who doesn't worry about the battery. And range - even if it gets down to 40-50 miles on a cold day - that's plenty. Or she takes the other car. But if the battery gets weak - the resale value will plummet.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

Thanks, all. We are going to the EV expo this weekend. Just waiting to take the jump, and find the right car. We're looking for a 13 SL - almost a rarity!
We have been doing lots of research. Way too much! I was looking for some real-world examples. We'll only keep this car a few years, until the next-gen. But only IF it has a safety package. Might look at the Tesla 3, but fear what the options might add up to...
But who doesn't worry about the battery. And range - even if it gets down to 40-50 miles on a cold day - that's plenty. Or she takes the other car. But if the battery gets weak - the resale value will plummet.

What is a "safety package"?

The Tesla 3 won't be out for years. Hasn't been revealed yet so you can't take much of a look at it.

 

[LeftieBiker]

We're looking for a 13 SL - almost a rarity!

Be alert when looking at 2013 SV and SL models, as there was a "Base" version of both with no backup camera, much less all around view cameras. If you see an ad for one and the price seems too good to be true it's probably one of these "stripped" cars.

To respond to the other question, in our Leaf we do not see any real range loss using AC or heat.

In the case of heat, that can be true only of a heatpump-equipped Leaf, and in only mildly cold weather - well above freezing. In real cold weather, using the heat lowers the range, and in the case of resistance-heat-only cars, it lowers it a lot. Once you get down below 23F or so, even the heatpump models lose lots of range to heat.

 

[Firetruck41]

Most of us without the camera/all around view do not consider our SV or SL as "stripped down", just doesn't have one of the option packages that were not very important to us. There are only two option packages for the SV, so don't worry about getting a "stripped down" car, just be aware of what you are getting... pretty much the same as with most vehicles when car shopping.

 

[jjdoe]

The "safety package" has things like lane-change warning, radar-based active collision avoidance. Prius has these things available. Most luxury cars do, and they are filtering down to mid-level models. And at $38k, the SL model is NOT an inexpensive car. That would make it top of the line, for a Camry or Accord.
The Tesla 3 is projected for 2017. That's about 12 months away?

 

[LeftieBiker]

And at $38k, the SL model is NOT an inexpensive car.

True, but you get $7.5k back immediately in a rebate. In general, you have to assume a $10-$15k higher price just because a vehicle is a BEV. That means the Leaf SL is more in line with the Prius II, which does not have radar...

 

[TimLee]

... But only IF it has a safety package. ...

The "safety package" has things like lane-change warning, radar-based active collision avoidance. ...

LEAF does not have that.
Not even the 2016 which isn't available yet.

 

[jjdoe]

I'm referring to the 2017 model, or the next-gen.
I think of the Leaf as a $25k car, with another 10k of R+D.

 

[cwerdna]

And at $38k, the SL model is NOT an inexpensive car.

True, but you get $7.5k back immediately in a rebate.

No you don't. It's a $7500 Federal tax credit that will help for next year's Federal income taxes. And, this is assuming you have at least $7500 in Federal tax liability.

I suppose it could help if earlier if you can reduce your withholdings or amount of estimated tax you pay.

But you do get the benefit immediately if you lease via the form of a cheaper leaser.

 

[cwerdna]

I'm asking the unknowable, but does anyone have a Leaf with 50,000 miles? 80k? Has anyone had their battery replaced by Nissan (due to weakening with age?)

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=31&t=20275&p=432849#p432849 is past 141K miles. He passed 100K miles in Dec 2013:
http://nissannews.com/en-US/nissan/usa/releases/washington-nissan-leaf-owner-celebrates-100-000-all-electric-miles
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZEx09f3WNTg

On the latter question, yes http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=14102 is one thread. There are others.

 

[mwalsh]

I suppose it could help if earlier if you can reduce your withholdings or amount of estimated tax you pay.

That's the smart money way to do it, IF you're sure your liability is going to be over $7,500 during that tax year.

 

[jjdoe]

Nice video! My wife was told that there was one Leaf at her university hospital when they installed the first charging station. The following month there were 6 cars!
We enjoyed the EV fair today. We got to talk to a few chatty owners. Finally saw the 360 camera. It seemed less of a gimmick, in action. Especially when you isolate one camera. So now we need to find a 2013 we like, with all the options - and a color we like???
On the way home, we test drove a Prius. We liked it, but I thought the engine was noisy, not very peppy, and the mileage not that impressive. But you can't argue with its range and longevity! The controls looked like a space ship - but the Leaf feels like the future.
But WOW - that 17" monitor in the Tesla S!!! And the BMW i8. So sleek - but I wasn't getting in it. I'm sure there's a trick to it, but we saw a guy 10 years younger than me struggle getting out. He was one attempt away from asking me for a hand.

 

[Deleted member 9549]

The Tesla 3 is projected for 2017. That's about 12 months away?

Lol. There is zero chance the model 3 will be out next year. This is 2015. 2017 refers to the calendar year. The model 3 is 2-3 years away at least.
Tesla revealed the model x more than 2 years ago and it's still not available. The model 3 has not been revealed yet. In fact there is almost nothing known about it that wasn't in the original tesla business plan.

 

[dhanson865]

I'm asking the unknowable, but does anyone have a Leaf with 50,000 miles? 80k? Has anyone had their battery replaced by Nissan (due to weakening with age?)

Have a look at the wiki http://www.electricvehiclewiki.com/?title=Real_World_Battery_Capacity_Loss

Hundreds of cases there for you to look at many with links to the thread posts describing them getting a free battery (one that got screwed for being a few miles out of warranty)

 

[cwerdna]

The Tesla 3 is projected for 2017. That's about 12 months away?

Lol. There is zero chance the model 3 will be out next year. This is 2015. 2017 refers to the calendar year. The model 3 is 2-3 years away at least.

Yeah, no way on 12 months. Elon tweeted on Sep 2, 2015 (https://twitter.com/elonmusk/status/639171519197777920)

Model 3, our smaller and lower cost sedan will start production in about 2 years. Fully operational Gigafactory needed.

Who knows if they'll actually make that date? Personally, I think they have a much better chance of hitting the date than their claimed "$35K" price.

 

[TimLee]

...
But who doesn't worry about the battery. And range - even if it gets down to 40-50 miles on a cold day - that's plenty. Or she takes the other car. But if the battery gets weak - the resale value will plummet.

If the round trip commute is 25 miles in Atlanta a 2013 LEAF with the heat pump heater should work well for several years.
Battery degradation can be pretty quick.
My 2011 has lost three capacity bars in 4 1/2 years and 29,000 miles.
In cold weather if you like heat it is a 35 mile range vehicle.
But no heat pump heater.
A 2013 with heat pump heater and similar capacity degradation should do 40 or 45 miles in Atlanta cold weather.

But resale value is a silly term with the LEAF.
A 2013 SL you buy today for $10,000 to $12,000 will very likely be worth only $2,000 to $3,000 in three to four years.
Relative to resale value they are disposable cars.
But with only a 25 mile round trip it should be a very functional reliable vehicle for five to seven years.