Backup-beep backlash?

[TimLee]

...
2) The only "regular" vehicle I know of that has the beeper is the Prius (also otherwise silent). Not saying you're wrong, but I haven't crossed paths with others. Could you name some?

The one I recall was a government sport-utility vehicle around 2005 or 2006, my guess is it was a Ford Expedition. Was really loud, MUCH louder than the LEAF. But still not near as loud as the near 100 dB of garbage trucks and construction vehicles.

A quote from a 2008 USA Today article http://usatoday30.usatoday.com/money/autos/2002-10-13-back-up-alarms_x.htm" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;:

Driver's of minivans, pickups and sport-utility vehicles are backing into and killing an average 88 people per year besides causing billions of dollars per year of property damage. That's out of 116 people killed per year - a third of them children - by any kind of vehicle backing up ...

 

[cwerdna]

3) My Leaf's beeper is several orders of magnitude louder than my sister's Prius'. The Prius can only be heard when you are directly behind the car. The Leaf can literally be heard from a block away. Again, speaking about my own 2012 Leaf and my sister's 2014 Prius.

Just to clarify, the reverse beep in the Prius is NOT outside the vehicle. It is not meant to be heard outside, it is a reminder for the occupants inside. With the windows up you can't hear anything outside. It is also easily turned off with a special sequence of button presses inside the cabin or with the Toyota Techstream software. It has been this way and standard since 2004 models in 2003 year.

Interesting, I did not know that. I have never owned a Prius, so I was just going off my experience around my sister's.

Yeah, on the Gen 2 Prius (04-09), you could shut off in the interior beeping via a "chicken dance" (http://priuschat.com/threads/disabling-the-reverse-beep.37380/#axzz3MOpr7P2Q" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false. I've done it myself.

On Gen 3 (2010 to current), I'm 90% sure the "dance" doesn't work anymore. Essentially, the most straightforward method is to have the dealer do it w/Toyota Techstream (their laptop w/their expensive Toyota software and OBD2 cable; essentially their equivalent of (Nissan's) Consult III+). It can only be changed from continual beeping to single beep.

 

[CWO4Mann]

One issue may be the high frequency and dB level of the backup beep. People who are hearing impaired in the high frequency ranges (as am I) cannot realy hear the sound. I know that without my VA Issued digital hearing aids I am unable to hear the beeping. Too much gunfire at an early age followed by 120dB noise in the cockpit.

 

[Grant]

IMHO there should be a pedestrian median in between every row of cars, so cars and pedestrians don't have to share the same space.

Yes, THIS. Parking lots are extremely poorly designed for pedestrian use. The sad reality is that it would cost more money and take up more space (fewer parking spots for a given area) to do it correctly, which I'm guessing is why it is not done. I'm surprised there have not been more lawsuits from pedestrians being hit in parking lots to force better designs to be implemented.

 

[LeftieBiker]

One issue may be the high frequency and dB level of the backup beep. People who are hearing impaired in the high frequency ranges (as am I) cannot realy hear the sound. I know that without my VA Issued digital hearing aids I am unable to hear the beeping. Too much gunfire at an early age followed by 120dB noise in the cockpit.

I find it hard to believe that most of the people in most shopping center parking lots are hearing impaired...

 

[CWO4Mann]

One issue may be the high frequency and dB level of the backup beep. People who are hearing impaired in the high frequency ranges (as am I) cannot realy hear the sound. I know that without my VA Issued digital hearing aids I am unable to hear the beeping. Too much gunfire at an early age followed by 120dB noise in the cockpit.

I find it hard to believe that most of the people in most shopping center parking lots are hearing impaired...

I know, but if you went to the local supermarkets on "Senior Citizen's Day" you will certainly meet up with them -- also walkers, canes, wheelchairs, and 100-year old ladies from the Rest Home driving their 1960's Cadillac's, Buicks, and Ford Town Cars. I used to have a speaker backup on my old truck that was really loud, except the voice was in Spanish and not English. Ooops.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

IMHO there should be a pedestrian median in between every row of cars, so cars and pedestrians don't have to share the same space.

Yes, THIS. Parking lots are extremely poorly designed for pedestrian use. The sad reality is that it would cost more money and take up more space (fewer parking spots for a given area) to do it correctly, which I'm guessing is why it is not done. I'm surprised there have not been more lawsuits from pedestrians being hit in parking lots to force better designs to be implemented.

Sadly, you are probably right; it's all about money. Not only would you have fewer spots in a given area, but it would be more expensive to build and maintain (clearing snow for example). To do it right, you couldn't just draw lines indicating a pedestrian path. I've seen that; drivers always end up parking on top of it. Instead you would need either curbs or actual sidewalk throughout the entire lot to do it right.

 

[Slow1]

One issue may be the high frequency and dB level of the backup beep. People who are hearing impaired in the high frequency ranges (as am I) cannot realy hear the sound. I know that without my VA Issued digital hearing aids I am unable to hear the beeping. Too much gunfire at an early age followed by 120dB noise in the cockpit.

I find it hard to believe that most of the people in most shopping center parking lots are hearing impaired...

Nope, only the ones being run over by the Leaf

All kidding aside, those who are hearing impaired generally know about it and cope with it in some way I'm sure. It is more likely targeted towards those who are distracted (i.e. folks texting or that teenager with great hearing in the process of destroying it with headphones up too loud, ha!).

I tend to believe that while the backup alarms have a place, inclusion on any/all vehicles will more likely get folks trained at ignoring these sounds over time... then we have an escalation of sounds to draw attention? Hmm... Too bad we can't just teach folks to pay attention and not allow themselves to be distracted in potentially hazardous situations/areas.

 

[GlennD]

The first thing I did on my 2013 Leaf was to run the outside speaker wires through a normally closed relay. When I backup the relay pulls in and disconnects the speaker. I want the low speed blind warning but I can not stand the backup beeps!

 

[Nubo]

One issue may be the high frequency and dB level of the backup beep. People who are hearing impaired in the high frequency ranges (as am I) cannot realy hear the sound. I know that without my VA Issued digital hearing aids I am unable to hear the beeping. Too much gunfire at an early age followed by 120dB noise in the cockpit.

That could explain the people who seem oblivious, but the thing that's been astounding me are the number of people who seem to change course and deliberately go out of their way to cross my path once the beeping starts!

 

[nerys]

I kind of like the backup beep. its more a tinkle chiming and is rather pleasant (versus the harsh beeeeep beeeep you typically get from trucks etc..)

what I do not like REALLY do not like and REALLY want gone is the damned "whine" when you move forward. the particular frequency range they use is "aggravating" to me and as a delivery driver I get to suffer through HOURS of that noise daily.

I am thinking of coming up with a convuluted 3 or 4 relay method to have it "on" when the car is off (so I get the beeps when I plug in the EVSE) and "on" when I put it in reverse but "off" otherwise.

what other sounds come from the speaker? I am aware of 3. the beep,,,,beep beep when you plug the EVSE

the tinkle tinkle of reverse

and the whine of forward under 18mph

is it used for anything else? thinking of cutting power to the speaker and then have a "normally on" relay so that no power it is powered and when powered it is "off" terminating that whine but letting the beep ,,,,beep beep work.

then have reverse "power" the speaker using a relay connected to the reverse light bulb to another relay in front of the normally on relay to "bypass" it when the car is on and apply power so I get the reverse tinkle.

just need to know if that speaker does anything else.

or would be killer to replace that sound with "some other" sound. jetsons warble?

 

[TimLee]

what I do not like REALLY do not like and REALLY want gone is the damned "whine" when you move forward. the particular frequency range they use is "aggravating" to me and as a delivery driver I get to suffer through HOURS of that noise daily.

I am thinking of coming up with a convuluted 3 or 4 relay method to have it "on" when the car is off (so I get the beeps when I plug in the EVSE) and "on" when I put it in reverse but "off" otherwise.

...

Some people with a 2012 have added the Off switch the 2011 has and some have added the circuit for it to default to Off.
See:

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=6596&hilit=noise&start=80#p164681" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

and

http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=37&t=3296&hilit=vsp+disable&start=150#p148160" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

 

[jlv]

What you missed is that (back then) nerys responded to the first message you linked to with:

I personally don't even hear it on mine (and I want too) does anyone have a recording of it (as well as turning it on and off with the switch in the same recording??)

maybe its just a sound I can not hear? I hear the backup sound (rather pleasant actually)

Back then he couldn't hear it... now it's aggravating! :? :lol:

 

[nerys]

I could not hear it because I did not recognize it for what it was. ie I heard it but did not realize what I was hearing.

I THOUGHT It was the car itself making the noise ie like engine noise.

I did not realize that the "annoying" noise I was hearing was the noise maker. ie artificially generated.

not until one day when I "inched" forward and it did not make the noise then suddenly "noise"

and I went OH **** so THAT is the noise. I HATE that noise.

since the reverse noise was clear and obvious I had assumed the forward noise would also be clear and obvious.

the subtle but aggravating frequency noise it makes I had assumed was "electronic hum" ie normal part of the operation of the car that I had to simply deal with.

 

[TimLee]

... I HATE that noise.
...

I agree.

I have no idea why anyone would pick such a noise that more than 99% of pedestrians are completely oblivious to.

ZERO guidance from NHTSA.
Apparently zero rigorous studies on what sound would work for most people.
Madness. Simply madness :? :?

 

[palmermd]

Nissan could make some extra money on the Leaf if they sold the sound naming rights each year. Perhaps $1,000,000 from Dominos one year and then Pepsi the next....

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n17B_uFF4cA[/youtube]

 

[TimLee]

Nissan could make some extra money on the Leaf if they sold the sound naming rights each year. Perhaps $1,000,000 from Dominos one year and then Pepsi the next....

My goodness what a bad idea.
Just give us the ability to change it, and make it part of the contract when you buy it to share the revenue with Nissan :?
LEAF driver keeps $250 per year, Nissan gets $250 per year.
Win - Win

 

[palmermd]

My goodness what a bad idea.

I guess I still need to work on my ability to translate sarcasm to a forum post.

 

[TimLee]

I guess I still need to work on my ability to translate sarcasm to a forum post.

I think you got it.
You might have missed mine :?

 

[GlennD]

Well, I just upgraded to a class b. I was happy to find that it agreed with my preferences. It has blind warning but NO BACKUP BEEPS! Just the way I prefer. This has so many toys it will take a while.