Amended Settlement in Klee v. Nissan

[kikngas]

If you take 24kwh = 84 miles. Divide 24kwh by 4kwh you get 6kwh. 84 miles divided by 6 you have 14 miles. So for every 6kwh = 14 miles. So if you believe your current pack goes 84 miles on 24kwh than an additional 6kwh to a 24kwh battery would yield 14 miles more than 84 to equal 98 miles range. I wish those were freeway miles!

Not sure what you are trying to figure here, but if you increase a 24kWh battery by 6kWh, that is a 25% increase. If you increase an 84mi range by 25%, than you expect 21 more miles for a total of 105mi. I wish those were cold weather miles

 

[Evoforce]

I guess I was working on the conservative side of the equation. Since the sales numbers don't hold up. And maybe mine don't either! Anyway, a number of about 75 freeway miles I think is close.

 

[cwerdna]

^^^
Not sure what's up with your math as I haven't tried to digest it.

30 kwh / 24 kwh = 1.25

84 miles * 1.25 = 105 miles

 

[Evoforce]

Yes, you are correct based on EPA rated standard on it's mileage rating. And I wish you could throw some cooling my direction right now! I promise I will try to throw some heat your way in the winter.

 

[TimLee]

... It is interesting that they are not really mentioning model years after 11-12 if I remember correctly. That leads me to believe that 13-14 batteries had some sort of tweaking more than has been admitted.

After the debacle with the rapid capacity degradation on the 2011 & 2012, Nissan added the capacity warranty for 2013 forward LEAFs.
Has nothing to do with battery chemistry changes, although there may have been some minor changes on chemistry.

The 2011 & 2012 class action lawsuit came about because Nissan attempted to clearly state there was no capacity warranty,
but they also spoke out of both sides of their mouth and made both written and verbal statements about expected capacity degradation rates.
Is an excellent legal case study that if you are not going to provide a warranty on an issue, you cannot make statements about what the customer can expect on the issue.

 

[ydnas7]

"Is an excellent legal case study that if you are not going to provide a warranty on an issue, you cannot make statements about what the customer can expect on the issue."

Fundamentally, I would disagree with that statement. The core problem was that Nissan didn't understand how real world USA use would affect battery usage compared to real world Japanese use or simulated USA use. If Nissan had been less ambiguous but more precise in their statements to USA customers, then the basis for the claims would have been reduced.

For example, Nissan probably had a cycle test of 10kWh, presumably cycled 2,000 and capacity reduced from 100% to 90%. (numbers not precise) LA4 discharge, 3kW recharge, temperature 20C. If Nissan had published similar results, then there would be less basis for the claims.
As it stands, most car companies have even less disclosure than Nissan, ie Ford's dashboard.

 

[sub3marathonman]

The 2011 & 2012 class action lawsuit came about because Nissan attempted to clearly state there was no capacity warranty,
but they also spoke out of both sides of their mouth and made both written and verbal statements about expected capacity degradation rates.
Is an excellent legal case study that if you are not going to provide a warranty on an issue, you cannot make statements about what the customer can expect on the issue.

I don't follow the LEAF news closely, so I could be wrong, but in my opinion what really gave the class action lawsuit traction was the range test by Tony Williams and the group he assembled. I don't know if there even was a class action lawsuit at the time, as from what I remember there were just a few initial people "complaining." Tony Williams (and the group) very publicly and very accurately proved that there was truly a problem with the batteries, statements which were debated than but have, as time has gone by, proven to be completely accurate, and in my opinion probably beyond what even they expected or documented at the time.

I will also say that the mynissanleaf forum here also played a fair role in the overall situation, because the worst thing a company can have is the public finding out about a major problem. I think one forum member even did (or was going to) picket about it. But through this forum a huge number of LEAF owners and others found out about it.

And, as long as I'm mentioning, I will definitely agree that the settlement was very poor for not allowing a proration of damages really for every LEAF owner whose capacity was under 80% after 5 years or 60K miles. Nissan could have just provided a voucher for $X towards the purchase of a new pack, based on the measurement at the end of the period. So 80% gets $0 voucher, 69% (if that is the right number) would get a $6K voucher, and each 1% less than the 80% would get another $540 voucher addition. I don't know what effect it would have had overall for Nissan, because there are so many leases, so it might have worked out close to this actual settlement?

 

[dsh]

Revised Nissan LEAF settlement over battery charge gets final go-ahead:

http://insideevs.com/nissan-leaf-battery-settlement-get-final-approval/

 

[kmcmahan]

I have been reading the post in this forum and agree with those suggesting that pro-rating would be a fair way to go. That being said, I am glad to see that the fix will be a new battery. I have a 2012 Leaf with 40,000 miles at 9 capacity bars. My GIDOMETER shows 58.4% capacity. But I got to tell you, funny things happened after getting the software update last year. I was suddenly able to use more of the battery's capacity even though my GIDOMETER numbers did not change. Since that time I have lost the ability to use my leaf because of the diminished capacity and have lent it to a friend who lives in town. He will drive it into warranty. I love my Leaf, but if I had it to do all over again, I wouldn't. Because of the way Nissan Handled the battery issue, I will probable never buy another Nissan. I have been terribly inconvenienced by it's early loss of range. To continue to use it, I had to station it at a friends house 10 miles closer to work for a year. Nissan never showed an interest in negotiating to make me happy and getting the lost utility of the car back. 8 bars until they would do anything was their standard answer. I'll be at 8 bars soon and hopefully get a new battery without to much hassle. I sure am looking forward to that!

 

[dsh]

Nissan Leaf Battery Capacity Lawsuit: Court Approves Settlement

http://www.greencarreports.com/news/1099200_nissan-leaf-battery-capacity-lawsuit-court-approves-settlement

 

[Nubo]

Problem is, Nissan's warranty in 2015 still doesn't match what they were blithely claiming in 2010. So far they've gotten away with it because for many, LEAF was the only viable game in town when it came to a BEV. Nissan will be losing that particular advantage in a big way during the next few years. Look for a REAL battery warranty when that happens.

I was quite happy with our leased 2012, and 2015 seems better from a battery perspective, but the warranty is still BS and so it's another lease and Nissan can shoulder the risk, just as they are now eating it big-time for 2011/2012 lease returns.

While I'm happy with the car for my application, I'm not particularly happy with Nissan's creation of, and handling of this problem. This offsets my admiration of them for going all-in on BEVs and they may have sacrificed what would otherwise have been a long-term brand loyalty.

 

[TomT]

A BIG +1!

Problem is, Nissan's warranty in 2015 still doesn't match what they were blithely claiming in 2010. So far they've gotten away with it because for many, LEAF was the only viable game in town when it came to a BEV. Nissan will be losing that particular advantage in a big way during the next few years. Look for a REAL battery warranty when that happens.

I was quite happy with our leased 2012, and 2015 seems better from a battery perspective, but the warranty is still BS and so it's another lease and Nissan can shoulder the risk, just as they are now eating it big-time for 2011/2012 lease returns.

While I'm happy with the car for my application, I'm not particularly happy with Nissan's creation of, and handling of this problem. This offsets my admiration of them for going all-in on BEVs and they may have sacrificed what would otherwise have been a long-term brand loyalty.

 

[marccbr]

What I don't understand is why the class action lawsuit doesn't insist on going with capacity vice bars. Bars can be programmed to show what ever they want especially when money is on the line. I purchased a 24 kh battery as per their advertisements and specifications. Now according to the LEAF Spy app I cannot get over a 16 kw in the battery so that puts me at 66% of what I payed for, yet in bars I have only lost 2 bars. I smell some BS when it comes to those bars. LEAF spy is showing that I have 48.6 AHr and SOH 74%. I'm a software engineer, so I don't have much electrical experience, are my calculations correct?

 

[keydiver]

Nissan has reserved the top 8% or more to improve battery life, which means you get about 22 kWh new. You are VERY close to dropping your 3rd bar, I lost mine at 72% and 47.4 AHr. I do agree though, 4 bars is way too low. The class action lawyers should have fought a bit harder for rasing the bar to at least 70%. I think Nissan asked for the 4 bar loss as a convenience to their dealers. If they don't see that 4th bar lost, they simply tell you to take a hike.

 

[Stoaty]

A new Leaf (prior to the Lizard battery introduce in 2015 model) has about 66.25 Ah when new. That means you are at about 73.4% of the original battery capacity. Bad... but not close to a 4 bar loss, which happens at about 66%.

 

[fss8221985]

Interesting timing. I just lost my 4th bar this weekend and took my 2012 Leaf in to the Nissan dealership today to get the battery repaired/replaced. I know the settlement has received final approval, but is there a date that it officially takes effect? It would be nice to get a 2015 Lizard battery.

 

[mwalsh]

Interesting timing. I just lost my 4th bar this weekend and took my 2012 Leaf in to the Nissan dealership today to get the battery repaired/replaced. I know the settlement has received final approval, but is there a date that it officially takes effect? It would be nice to get a 2015 Lizard battery.

Don't worry,,,you will. They've been using the Lizard packs for all warranty replacements since last fall/winter.

 

[HighDesertDriver]

Interesting timing. I just lost my 4th bar this weekend and took my 2012 Leaf in to the Nissan dealership today to get the battery repaired/replaced. I know the settlement has received final approval, but is there a date that it officially takes effect? It would be nice to get a 2015 Lizard battery.

Don't worry,,,you will. They've been using the Lizard packs for all warranty replacements since last fall/winter.

+1 Our 2011 battery was replaced under warranty 4 weeks ago with a 2015 "Lizard battery" manufactured 5/5/15. I'm still waiting for all the data to stabilize, but Leaf DD shows capacity steady at 66.1414 AHrs and 100% GIDS between 265 and 271. Seems low on GIDS for the much higher new AHr capacity, but perhaps it is just a difference in programming between 2011 and 2015 model year cars. We're just happy to have our range back.

 

[marccbr]

So recalculating subtracting the 8% Nissan claims for saving the battery. That would make it a 22 Kw battery pack which would make each bar worth 1.83 Kw (22/12). My max Kw at 100% charge is 16 Kw so I have a loss of 6 Kw (22 - 16). 6Kw(loss)/1.83Kw(per bar) = 3.27 bars, so I should have already lost 3 bars and working on my fourth, right?

 

[Valdemar]

Bars are not linear, the 1st one is 2x "thick" as the rest. So it's more like 13 bars total with the 2 topmost "fused" together.