Amended Settlement in Klee v. Nissan

[Valdemar]

Too bad I didn't opt out, had other priorities at the time and it slipped through the cracks. Does it mean I shouldn't even try small claims court?

I suspect you'll have another opportunity given the new settlement.

Sounds too easy, but I won't miss the opportunity this time if this actually happens.

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I wonder if those of us who have given our LEAFs back to Nissan get the goodies, or if the new owner gets them instead. I'd guess the new owner since he's the guy who might need to pay for extra DC charging because of the degrading battery.

I think I did get a notice and ignored it since I only had a 2 year lease, no need to opt out. It'll be pretty funny if whoever the new owner is gets $50 out of the blue. It'd be a nice surprise. A couple of times over the years I've gotten something like that from a class action that I had no idea I was a member of.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

Too bad I didn't opt out, had other priorities at the time and it slipped through the cracks. Does it mean I shouldn't even try small claims court?

I suspect you'll have another opportunity given the new settlement.

Sounds too easy, but I won't miss the opportunity this time if this actually happens.

you have 65,000 miles and lost 2 bars so far? Sounds like an uphill battle but then again, what is "reasonable" in all this? there is no precedent.

 

[TimLee]

...
It's not great, especially for those of us who won't have lost four bars within five years, but it's a bit better than the original settlement ...

Thanks for the update.

Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.
Like they were unwilling to sell replacement batteries

Still not sure leaving zealous early adopters of the LEAF irritated is a very smart long term business decision.

Lost second capacity bar yesterday at over 23,000 miles and 43 months in service, 46 months from vehicle manufacture.
Seems unlikely my usage could increase enough to qualify for the capacity warranty.
$50 "now" or the joy of hazzling myself and Nissan in small claims court in two or three years.
What a wonderful choice :?

At least after reading the details of the god awful No Charge To Charge program, there is a reason to be happy Chattanooga isn't included in NCTC.

 

[Valdemar]

you have 65,000 miles and lost 2 bars so far? Sounds like an uphill battle but then again, what is "reasonable" in all this? there is no precedent.

At 72% SOH I'm likely a couple of month away from losing the 3rd. What about the 80% remaining range after 5 years estimate that I signed? I was super paranoid not to stress the pack, 3 5 star reports for what they are worth. I know the chances are slim, but I have nothing to lose, and a compassionate judge may be all it takes to win a claim.

 

[TimLee]

...What about the 80% remaining range after 5 years estimate that I signed? ...

Could you post a copy of the disclosure statement?

Clear that the only LEAFs that will meet their clearly documented statements of 80 % in 5 years / 70% in 10 years are those in cool climates.

Point of contention may be mileage, which I don't recall they mentioned.

Once capacity degradation problem became obvious, they stated it was based on 7,500 miles per year.

Your miles per year is on high end and that may be a contention by Nissan against the claim.

 

[Valdemar]

Here it is. It is pretty loose, "no guarantee", and gives Nissan a lot of leverage, still I think the gross discrepancy between the estimate and the reality is sufficient for a claim.

 

[ttweed]

I will probably opt back in, just because there is an outside chance that I will lose my 4th bar before 60K miles, especially if we slow down usage of it to stretch out to the 5-year time period.

TT

 

[TomT]

My car will be gone and Nissan's problem in less than 2 months so I plan to do nothing... If there was a chance I'd be able to lose the fourth bar and utilize the capacity warranty before I hit the 60,000 mile mark, I'd consider extending the lease but that is not going to happen so it will get turned in and I will move on to something other than a Leaf.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

you have 65,000 miles and lost 2 bars so far? Sounds like an uphill battle but then again, what is "reasonable" in all this? there is no precedent.

At 72% SOH I'm likely a couple of month away from losing the 3rd. What about the 80% remaining range after 5 years estimate that I signed? I was super paranoid not to stress the pack, 3 5 star reports for what they are worth. I know the chances are slim, but I have nothing to lose, and a compassionate judge may be all it takes to win a claim.

do you think Steve Marsh should qualify for a warranty exchange after 5 years and TWO HUNDRED THOUSAND MILES?

 

[Valdemar]

I think they owe me 1/2 of replacement pack cost. I methodically followed all their recommendations wrt to keeping the pack happy, and what do I get? 30% range loss after 3 1/2 years? And people who could not care less, what do they get, a new chemistry pack? I know life is not fair, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try to square things up a bit.

 

[TomT]

Yep, if I had simply trashed the battery, I'd have a new one today!

I think they owe me 1/2 of replacement pack cost. I methodically followed all their recommendations wrt to keeping the pack happy, and what do I get? 30% range loss after 3 1/2 years? And people who could not care less, what do they get, a new chemistry pack? I know life is not fair, but it doesn't mean I shouldn't try to square things up a bit.

 

[walterbays]

There seems very little different from the original settlement.

1. If your battery quickly loses MUCH more capacity than originally represented they'll give you a new battery with latest chemistry. Whereas the original settlement had them replacing batteries which lost much more capacity than originally represented with a new battery which just happened to incorporate latest chemistry .

2. 90 days free fast charging. Almost as valuable as a Starbucks card.

3. Those who opted out get the chance to come back in to get the "great" warranty. Whereas previously they had given the same great warranty unconditionally prior to the settlement without reference to the lawsuit.

Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.

I love my Leaf and I really hope that their new battery holds up much better than the original, and will be watching this forum for news about that. But without plenty of independent real world data showing good battery longevity, and without Nissan backing up their glib claims with a solid pro rata warranty, then I must assume that the batteries they're selling now will degrade just as quickly as ever. And that means my next car can't be a Nissan, but one with a track record of good batteries. :-( I still hope one of those factors changes before it's time to replace my car, but I guess a decent warranty won't be what changes.

 

[Stoaty]

And that means my next car can't be a Nissan, but one with a track record of good batteries. :-(

Or one with a good capacity warranty. Here is where the Soul EV shines.

 

[mwalsh]

There seems very little different from the original settlement.

1. If your battery quickly loses MUCH more capacity than originally represented they'll give you a new battery with latest chemistry. Whereas the original settlement had them replacing batteries which lost much more capacity than originally represented with a new battery which just happened to incorporate latest chemistry.

2. 90 days free fast charging. Almost as valuable as a Starbucks card.

3. Those who opted out get the chance to come back in to get the "great" warranty. Whereas previously they had given the same great warranty unconditionally prior to the settlement without reference to the lawsuit.

Sad that Nissan did not see the wisdom of a prorated warranty for capacity warranty, which just like tires or 12 volt batteries is all that makes any technical sense for either the customer or the supplier.
Guess it is just a precedent they are unwilling to set.

I too would have liked to see a pro-rated warranty provision, because (as it was always designed to do, IMHO) it does make it near impossible for most people to qualify for the warranty, unless they're in really LEAF unfriendly environments.

But I do think the amended settlement is a little bit better than the original in that (and I've said this before and don't want anyone to miss it) it appears to make it impossible for Nissan to use anything other than brand new packs for warranty repair going forward (at least until "latest technology" packs should become available for refurbishment). Yes, I know they've been using new battery packs anyway, but they were not under any obligation to do so - all the original warranty called for is for cars to be restored above 9 bars. This is the most important part of the new agreement.

As for opting back in, when the original warranty was announced in 2013 I was yet to loose a bar. When I opted out I don't think I'd quite lost any more bars (though I did loose a second one in early October that year). Now I've lost 3 and fully expect to loose the other one this year, so I fully expect to opt back in. The only gamble for me will be whether or not I'll loose that 4th bar in the next 10,500 miles or 10 months.

 

[Moof]

Yep, advertise a typical of 80% at 5 years, and 70% at 10 years, but only begrudgingly replace batteries that are <66% after 5 years. But hey, you get 90 days of free charging*!

*Must make multiple lengthy registrations. May be charged anyway. Participating charging networks may not actually participate. Nissan Motors USA will not work to resolve usability issues or false charges.

 

[kolmstead]

Since the letter that we got letting us opt in or out of the settlement no longer represents the final settlement, I presume that it will be re-issued, stating the new terms. If it works like the first one, then not replying will be an automatic opt in?

Mike, you actually have two gambles; whether or not your battery will qualify, and whether or not they force you to accept the P3227 update before they determine your battery's capacity loss. In my case, the update "added" quite a bit of capacity, and it took about six months to get back to the pre-update numbers. When Nissan announced the warranty for the 2011 and 2012 Leafs, they said that you must have the update before they will honor the warranty. Good luck, Sir!

-Karl

 

[TomT]

Which is why, if you think you will qualify soon, it is a good idea to be proactive and get the update so your system has time to return to "normal..."

Mike, you actually have two gambles; whether or not your battery will qualify, and whether or not they force you to accept the P3227 update before they determine your battery's capacity loss. In my case, the update "added" quite a bit of capacity, and it took about six months to get back to the pre-update numbers. When Nissan announced the warranty for the 2011 and 2012 Leafs, they said that you must have the update before they will honor the warranty. Good luck, Sir!

 

[dhanson865]

not that they would or have such a program but I want to play with the math of how much to charge on prorated battery replacements

replacement battery at retail rates is what $5000? It gets replaced at 4 bars lost (33.75% lost / 66.25% remaining) but a "new car" battery doesn't show 100% guaranteed if you use leafspy (they degrade on the lot). So we should value that at about $175 per percent below 99%, 98%?

If a 4 bar loser gets a free battery at 59,000 miles and 59 months

a 3 bar loser should be able to buy a new battery at 59,000 miles or 59 months for $4075?
a 2 bar loser should be able to buy a new battery at 59,000 miles or 59 months for $3150?
a 1 bar loser should be able to buy a new battery at 59,000 miles or 59 months for $2200?

based on remaining value assuming they can sell a degraded pack to someone else for $6000-the price paid to replace the battery leaving used packs worth

1 bar lost pack still worth $3800?
2 bar lost pack still worth $2850?
3 bar lost pack still worth $1025?

how does that compare to junkyard prices for used packs?

Is that anywhere near the correct valuation for a prorated replacement cost and residual value for the leftover pack?

So many players, so hard to make it fair to all and have fixed prices. I'm not sure if I'm even close to the right approach.

 

[DaveEV]

2. 90 days free fast charging. Almost as valuable as a Starbucks card.

To some, perhaps. But it's generally accepted that only about 10% of one's miles come from public charging, but that's a fleet wide average. So even at an average of 1,000 miles / month, one might QC 300 miles worth. With a typical 2-bar loser generally good for about 10 kWh for a LBW -> 80% charge, that might be good for 7-8 QC sessions. or 2-3 QCs/month on average.

But personally, I only QC rarely and I suspect that people either fall into the camp of one who uses public charging a lot, or they rarely use it (I QC less than once a month on average, for example). So some people it could be worth quite a bit - for others, it would be quite worthless.

A card that got one say $100 worth of charging would have been a better deal for most people. Or just give people two years of the no-charge-to-charge program like new owners currently get.

The amended settlement is better than before - but not significantly improved.