All Blink installs on hold because of LADWP???

[TomT]

So apparently LADWP has changed their mind once again on the rebate covering an EV TOU meter installed after the fact... See the thread below:

________________________________________
From: Harper, Raymond [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pluginla
Sent: Wednesday, June 08, 2011 9:16 AM
Subject: RE: Meters
Good Morning,

I received a reply to my inquiry this morning, and you are eligible to apply for the rebate as long as all the requirements stated on the application are met.

Regards,

Raymond Harper
LADWP
Customer Contact Center
866-484-0433

________________________________________
Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 7:44 PM
To: pluginla; Harper, Raymond
Subject: RE: Meters

So, the below from your web page indicates that the cost of installing a TOU meter after the fact for my EV Project home charger WOULD be covered by the rebate.
This, of course, contradicts would I have heard and been told elsewhere.

What is the true story, please?


How to Apply:

After the Level 2 charger has been purchased and installed, do the following.
• Contact LADWP to install a separate time-of-use meter for the charger.
• Download the EV Home Charger Rebate Application (PDF).
• Review the rebate application to confirm rebate program eligibility.
• Mail the required documentation with the completed application to the address noted on the application.
• Applications must be postmarked within 180 days of completing the charger installation or purchase of the EV, whichever is later.

This is a limited-time program to assist early adopters of EVs with their installation costs. Rebate terms and conditions are subject to change at any time. The program is set to expire on June 30, 2013, when the program goals are met, or the funds are exhausted; whichever comes first.

http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp002056.jsp

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

From: Harper, Raymond [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of pluginla
Sent: Friday, May 27, 2011 11:43 AM
Subject: RE: Meters

Good Morning,

The Charge Up LA! rebate would not cover installation of a TOU meter after your charger has been installed.

Regards,

Raymond Harper
LADWP
Customer Contact Center
866-484-0433

________________________________________
Sent: Wednesday, May 25, 2011 8:59 PM
To: pluginla
Subject: Meters

My Leaf was delivered on March 3 and my Blink charger from Ecotality (EV Project) was installed on March 8. I did not install a second TOU meter at the time due to the cost.
Would the pluginla rebate cover the cost of my now installing a second meter since it would be within the 180 period stipulated?

Thanks

 

[91040]

My concern is with the free fast charge port. If I opt out of EV Project, what effect does that have? It could actually imperil delivery of the Leaf, I fear.

I agree completely. This definitely feels like a unilateral change in the agreement. In fact I am not entirely certain they can do this. I was already accepted into the program and quoted for the install; can they really change the conditions at this point? Any lawyers want to chime in?

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, have not had any training in law or make any claims to being sane.

You are not required to to agree to the revision of the contract.
Ecotality can drop you from the EV program for not agreeing to the new conditions.
Actions taken prior to removal for the program are subject to the original agreement.

Read the agreement. Is there any mention of reimbursing Ecotality for the QC port or having your order canceled or changed if you are removed or opt out of the program?
Assuming you acted in good faith, have followed the terms of the contract to date and are willing to continue with the terms of the original agreement, you have not violated the contract. The onus is on Ecotality.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, have not had any training in law or make any claims to being sane.

 

[LALeaf]

My concern is with the free fast charge port. If I opt out of EV Project, what effect does that have? It could actually imperil delivery of the Leaf, I fear.

I agree completely. This definitely feels like a unilateral change in the agreement. In fact I am not entirely certain they can do this. I was already accepted into the program and quoted for the install; can they really change the conditions at this point? Any lawyers want to chime in?

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, have not had any training in law or make any claims to being sane.

You are not required to to agree to the revision of the contract.
Ecotality can drop you from the EV program for not agreeing to the new conditions.
Actions taken prior to removal for the program are subject to the original agreement.

Read the agreement. Is there any mention of reimbursing Ecotality for the QC port or having your order canceled or changed if you are removed or opt out of the program?
Assuming you acted in good faith, have followed the terms of the contract to date and are willing to continue with the terms of the original agreement, you have not violated the contract. The onus is on Ecotality.

Disclaimer: I am not a lawyer, have not had any training in law or make any claims to being sane.

So is anyone planning on signing the new agreement?

 

[Lisadmn]

I am not signing the new agreement. It makes no economic sense since installing the second meter would cost a fortune for me. It looks like I am also going to miss the CA rebate since my car is not coming until the end of the month, so non of it is looking so hot.

 

[dlich18]

Here is copy of letter I wrote yesterday to Councilman's Bill Rosendahl's office. It explains the monetary effect I have suffered from the policy changes. Obviously, I have, under protest, signed the revised agreement. Otherwise, I would be stuck without a charger. But I intend to continue to pursue this issue on every front.

Checking in to see if there has been any progress on the political front.

I also want to bring you up to date about the real-world effect this snafu has caused me. In summary, my out-of-pocket cost has increased by $1,158.44 as a result of this unfortunate situation.

Back in September 2010, I received a quote from ECOtality’s designated electrical contractor, Wilson Electric, for installation of the charger. The quote was $1,358.00, less the $1,200 EV Project contribution, for a total “customer responsibility” of $158.00. I accepted that proposal and signed a contract with ECOtality. I was assured during various conversations with ECOtality that my installation would be scheduled for approximately 2 weeks before actual delivery of my Leaf.

As the delivery date of the Leaf approached, all installations were “put on hold”. ECOtality said that was due to LADWP. LADWP said it had nothing to do with it and that it’s requirements had no effect on my agreement with ECOtality.

Last week, I took delivery of my Leaf. I finally received a revised agreement from ECOtality in which it basically reneged on its $1,200 contribution for installation costs and, instead, required that I assign to it the new $2,000 LADWP rebate. Also, ECOtality required that I have a new assessment by a new electrical contractor. I received that new proposal today, for $3,316.44. Not only did the cost increase because of the new requirement of the 2nd meter, but the charger installation cost itself increased by $1,008.12. I inquired of the new contractor why it was so much more and was told it was “code requirements” (strange since the original proposal was by a licensed contractor that certainly should have been aware of code requirements). The new proposal allows for the $2,000 LADWP rebate, for a new out of pocket of $1,316.44.

Thus, my out of pocket has increased by $1,158.44. And, although I get the benefit of the LADWP rebate, the ECOtality installation credit has disappeared.

I strongly believe this situation needs to be investigated. As I have previously asserted, LADWP’s rebate was apparently intended to offset the additional cost of the 2nd meter and provide an incentive to Los Angeles residents to become early adopters of Electric Vehicles. The actual result is that I am out an additional $1,000, while ECOtality has been the unintended beneficiary of the LADWP incentive.

One more thing. It has been mentioned that I could simply opt out of the ECOtality project and apply directly for the LADWP rebate. Although I considered this option, I concluded that that could cause additional complications. As the result of my ECOtality EV Project participation, a $700 optional fast-charge port has been factory installed on my leaf – at no charge to me. If I was to now opt out of the EV Project, presumably I would be responsible to pay for that option. So, although ECOtality apparently considered itself able to renege on its original contractual commitment without consequence, I did not have the same flexibility.

Please contact me to discuss how Mr. Rosendahl’s office can assist in rectifying this miscarriage.

 

[Kataphn]

We had the EV Project Blink connected to our existing panel pre second meter requirement. I did talk to DWP's Mr. Harper and he confirmed that if we wanted to put the second meter in now, the rebate would apply. The thing is.....given the $8 per month service fee and taxes on the second meter, our savings on a yearly basis would just be a few dollars. I think we are going to stick with the status quo.
At our condo, also in DWP territory, we are pursuing the installation of a second meter that would go to a 240 outlet by our unit's parking spaces. Will post on that in another thread as it progresses. DWP is coming out to assess. Rebate would not apply because we are not going to put in a hard wired EVSE. We will just use Rev2 mod of supplied L1.

 

[TomT]

I'd get it in writing first! In the two months I have been pursuing this, they have twice flip-flopped on the rebate paying for the second meter, post EVSE install.

Since the ROI would be so minimal in my case, I've decided to pass on it regardless.

We had the EV Project Blink connected to our existing panel pre second meter requirement. I did talk to DWP's Mr. Harper and he confirmed that if we wanted to put the second meter in now, the rebate would apply.

 

[Kataphn]

Yes, I did have Mr. Harper send me an email to confirm that rebate would cover second meter....but we are not going to do it. Not worth the trouble even with rebate.

 

[MLN]

So, I bought my leaf home yesterday, it now sits in my charger-less garage. LADWP is coming today to to the site survey and provide an ESR report. Based on my "cart before the horse" situation, and the new LADWP/Eco-tality spat, do you think it is wise to continue with the Eco-tality project to get my Blink? I read that many of you already had your charger installed before the change in policy and the changes put you in a pickle.

Until this is rectified, I'll be parking my car at the dealer at night......This certainly isn't going as I planned, but am hopeful to get a charger soon - without depleting my checkbook.....

I look forward to hearing your thoughts....

Blue Leaf Purchased 06/20/11

 

[dlich18]

So, I bought my leaf home yesterday, it now sits in my charger-less garage. LADWP is coming today to do the site survey and provide an ESR report. Based on my "cart before the horse" situation, and the new LADWP/Eco-tality spat, do you think it is wise to continue with the Eco-tality project to get my Blink?

Just had my Blink installed yesterday. Now awaiting inspection by Building and Safety and, then, placement of the 2nd meter by LADWP.

This process is NOT yet a well-oiled machine, but with a lot of perseverance I hope it will pay off in the end. The impression I get from all the people I have spoken to at ECOtality, LADWP and the contractor is that there are a lot of hard working people trying to get it right, but haven't quite gotten there yet. For example, LADWP requires certain signage on the 2nd meter before they will connect. But - no one seems to have the signage. So today, contractor and ECOtality are trying to figure that one out.

One could get angry, but the installer guy who came to my house yesterday worked tirelessly from 7:30am until 8:30pm (because co-worker had car trouble and didn't make it). When you see that sort of hard, dedicated work, it's difficult to get to angry. I've decided just to relax a bit (just a little bit) and deal with trickle-charging for a little while longer.

The Leaf was certainly worth the wait! It is a dream to drive. I assume the charger will be worth the wait also.

 

[91040]

So, I bought my leaf home yesterday, it now sits in my charger-less garage. LADWP is coming today to to the site survey and provide an ESR report. Based on my "cart before the horse" situation, and the new LADWP/Eco-tality spat, do you think it is wise to continue with the Eco-tality project to get my Blink? I read that many of you already had your charger installed before the change in policy and the changes put you in a pickle.

Until this is rectified, I'll be parking my car at the dealer at night......This certainly isn't going as I planned, but am hopeful to get a charger soon - without depleting my checkbook.....

I look forward to hearing your thoughts....

It depends on your situation.

The problems that the new Ecotality agreement engendered are for people with solar electric and/or underground electric service. At present, DWP will not credit excess solar electric production towards electric usage on the new meter. Secondly, the cost of adding a second meter for those with underground electric service is, reportedly, substantial. There is also an $8/month fee for the second meter.

Other changes, in a quick reading of the new Ecotality agreement, include a lengthening of the term through 4/30/11; participant's liability of up to $1260 if Ecotality terminates the agreement for cause; additional protection for Ecotality from law suits; confidential mediation for disputes; assigning the LADWP rebate to Ecotality; and an installation allowance of $2000 (previously $1200).

Alternatively, the EVSEUpgrade modification of your portable EVSE will allow you to charge as fast as the Blink if you have access to a 220v outlet. It costs under $300.

 

[VikeKen]

One of the problems with the ECOTOTALITY scam (taking the rebate) is that it doesn't help when TOU meters cost a lot of cash.

I did find on the LADWP site (http://www.ladwp.com/ladwp/cms/ladwp002056.jsp) this information.

Service Requirement

To receive the rebate, customers must request LADWP to install a separate meter that measures only the electricity used for charging the EV. The rebate will cover the
cost of installing the separate meter. The new meter will be on a Time-of-Use Rate, which means you will pay less for energy used during off-peak hours – weeknights
and anytime on weekends. For more information on the rate options available for EV customers view the Residential Electric Rate Options for EV Owners webpage.

Isn't this clearly saying that the rebate is to be used to defray the costs of the TOU meter?
Thoughts?

 

[dlich18]

Isn't this clearly saying that the rebate is to be used to defray the costs of the TOU meter?
Thoughts?

No. The $2,000 is available for all out-of-pocket costs after other rebates. Under the current policy, ECOtality will not grant it's $1,200 installation rebate to residents of the City of Los Angeles and requires you to apply for the LADWP rebate and assign it to ECOtality. But you do have the $2,000 available to cover all costs. I just went through this and was credited by the contractor with the entire $2,000, which covered the 2nd meter as well as all other installation costs.

 

[TomT]

So, now that I have a number of months of charging information, I could compute how having a LADWP TOU meter would have affected the electrical cost of charging my Leaf... Interestingly, ignoring any installation costs for the TOU, it would have cost me $1.87 MORE with a TOU when you factor in the 8 dollar per month fee for the TOU.

By the way, this assumes that I charged in their relatively narrow lowest tier window with the maximum 2.5 cent discount... If I charged when I actually did over the last four months, my cost would have been MUCH higher with the TOU - $31.10 to be exact.

Now THERE are powerful incentives for installing one <G>!

Plus, without the TOU, I can opportunity charge at any time, if I need to, without having to worry about being in the stick-a-knife-in-your-eye rate tier...

 

[91040]

In addition, Ecotality will let you in the project under that whole-house TOU, if you have solar. You do not need to break up your service with a second meter dedicated to the Blink, as this totally screws the solar connection for car charging.

thankyouOB: Saw your post on the Solar Banking thread. I have not heard or seen anything from Ecotality or LADWP that supports this. Has something changed?

The new agreement Ecotality sent requires the 2nd meter and, last I heard, LADWP mandates it be an independent meter.

It will be great for those solar powered if you are correct!

 

[thankyouOB]

In addition, Ecotality will let you in the project under that whole-house TOU, if you have solar. You do not need to break up your service with a second meter dedicated to the Blink, as this totally screws the solar connection for car charging.

thankyouOB: Saw your post on the Solar Banking thread. I have not heard or seen anything from Ecotality or LADWP that supports this. Has something changed?

The new agreement Ecotality sent requires the 2nd meter and, last I heard, LADWP mandates it be an independent meter.

It will be great for those solar powered if you are correct!

it is absolutely true. LADWP does not care if you want to stay on whole house TOU with solar. They will give you the 2.5-cent discount.
Ecotality will allow you in the project with NO second meter for those people with SOLAR.
They understand fully that you cannot offset your charging with two TOU meters.
You have to insist, but you can get it.

 

[thankyouOB]

Ecotality and LADWP are pointing at each other as the one requiring the second meter.
So the issue is a tad confused.
The bottom line for people who ALREADY have solar:
you can get the 2.5-cent an hour discount on base rate use with whole house or a second meter that is TOU. If it is whole house, all your base use is discounted.
you can get in the EV Project and get your Blink install covered (i dont know what the limit is, but I would assume $1200) if you are on whole house TOU. You do not need to put in a second TOU meter.
You have to insist on it with Blink, but they will do it.

Both LADWP and Blink understand that a second TOU meter requirement is unfair to solar households.

 

[dlich18]

Here's an article just published by Rob Eshman, editor of the Los Angeles Jewish Journal, who appears to be caught in the same bureaucratic quagmire.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/rob_eshman/article/a_new_leaf_20110621/

 

[91040]

Re: Solar Electric and the 2nd Meter

The definitive answer from LADWP is that they cannot/will not allow the 2nd meter to be subtractive or to use the solar credit to offset the 2nd meter on the bill.

 

[TomT]

Honestly, the article reads as if it was written by someone who really does not truly understand the Leaf and who has not spent much time with one...

Here's an article just published by Rob Eshman, editor of the Los Angeles Jewish Journal, who appears to be caught in the same bureaucratic quagmire.
http://www.jewishjournal.com/rob_eshman/article/a_new_leaf_20110621/