A post for any current Leaf owners considering a BMW i3

[epirali]

I recently switched from my 2013 Leaf to a 2014 i3 w/REX solely for the extended range capability. I am/was very happy with the Leaf overall, consider it to be a good car with a clearly well designed use case. I posted this in the i3 forums and I thought it may be of use for those of you considering the i3.
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I have had the i3 for over a week now and my impressions compared to the LEAF:

1) The interior is much nicer than the LEAF, specially with the technology package display, but the LEAF touch screen is much more usable,

2) The exterior is more "unique" than the LEAF and not necessarily in a good way!

3) The ride is more sporty and the car is much faster, but much more bouncy and less relaxing than the LEAF. This is specially true of the aggressive accelerator/regen, and this is from someone who is used to aggressive regen from Tesla Roadster. I think they missed the mark, this car should not have been tuned to be sport,

4) The efficiency (miles/KWHR) is almost identical to LEAF, which is surprising considering all the technology,

5) Which brings me to electric only range, which is a good 5-10 miles LESS than the LEAF. This is the biggest disappointment.

So all in all I have to say bang for buck definitely goes to the LEAF, the quality/experience (interior) definitely goes to the BMW, and the purity of purpose goes to LEAF (a very useable and comfortable daily commuter), where the i3 is I am afraid a little confused. And if you need people in the back seat the LEAF is much better for room, but the i3 wins in seats down cargo as the seats go flat.

Only saving grace is the REX, I honestly could never recommend the BEV i3 over the LEAF.

And one last nit: who thought the key fob needed a "frunk" opener over the hatch, and why the heck does the hatch not unlock with other doors on stop? That is a constant source of irritation.

 

[mwalsh]

And one last nit: who thought the key fob needed a "frunk" opener over the hatch, and why the heck does the hatch not unlock with other doors on stop? That is a constant source of irritation.

A bit nit for me on the frunk, once I heard it, is that it's not watertight.

 

[Phatcat73]

5) Which brings me to electric only range, which is a good 5-10 miles LESS than the LEAF. This is the biggest disappointment.

the rex kicks in around 20% remaining? Therefore it'll have less range than the Leaf. Plus the rex adds some significant weight.

 

[epirali]

And one last nit: who thought the key fob needed a "frunk" opener over the hatch, and why the heck does the hatch not unlock with other doors on stop? That is a constant source of irritation.

A bit nit for me on the frunk, once I heard it, is that it's not watertight.

It absolutely is not, I saw water in there in the last hard rain. So not sure what its use is besides storing charge and tire patch kit.

 

[epirali]

5) Which brings me to electric only range, which is a good 5-10 miles LESS than the LEAF. This is the biggest disappointment.

the rex kicks in around 20% remaining? Therefore it'll have less range than the Leaf. Plus the rex adds some significant weight.

Not true, REX kicks in at very low percentage (only to keep battery from harm). So it uses almost all of the available battery. In fact the fact that they did not allow "hold state of charge" for CARB reasons makes the REX less useful. You can not preserve range for when you need it, and the REX works much harder with depleted battery and you can't use the battery in a pinch (like uphill).

Even without the REX weight the BMW only has 19 KWHr of usable battery vs slightly over 21 for Leaf, and about the same efficiency, so it just can't match the range.

 

[GerryAZ]

Thanks for your observations between Leaf and i3. I considered the i3 when I had to replace my 2011 Leaf, but I was afraid the range would be slightly lower and you confirmed that. I am curious, have you measured the gas mileage while running on the Rex? My fuel-injected BMW motorcycles make good mileage so I would expect the same from the i3. Enjoy your new car.

Gerry

 

[epirali]

Thanks for your observations between Leaf and i3. I considered the i3 when I had to replace my 2011 Leaf, but I was afraid the range would be slightly lower and you confirmed that. I am curious, have you measured the gas mileage while running on the Rex? My fuel-injected BMW motorcycles make good mileage so I would expect the same from the i3. Enjoy your new car.

Gerry

I haven't had a chance to measure Rex performance yet. Remember they artificially limit the gallons available. My wife could not make it back from a 45 mile drive with one "tank," she had to refuel, but then again she is relatively aggressive in her driving style. Currently the car is estimating a 50-55 mile range on Rex based on my driving style, which is around 4.1 miles/KWHr.

I don't think I get more than 120 miles total from electric+Rex on one full tank of gas. Still better than the 80-85 I could do with the Leaf in similar drives, but not nearly "twice the range" I was hoping for.

 

[Turnover]

I like a lot about the i3, but the rear doors don't open without having to open the front doors. Its a great back seat jail for toddlers but it makes people like me very, very uncomfortable not being able to get out of the back seat on our own terms. Ted Bundy would have liked a car like this to replace his Volkswagen Beetle. :shock:

 

[eloder]

I've never quite understood the i3 personally. It just strikes me as a Leaf that's slightly faster but 25% more expensive. The REx is so crippled it seems much better to go without it and enjoy the higher range / faster acceleration on all-electric.

 

[epirali]

I've never quite understood the i3 personally. It just strikes me as a Leaf that's slightly faster but 25% more expensive. The REx is so crippled it seems much better to go without it and enjoy the higher range / faster acceleration on all-electric.

Well except that addition 50 miles for me was critical, so I compromised. Otherwise I'm with you.

 

[kubel]

The i3 REx is the perfect car for me, except for the price. The BMW logo is an expensive feature, and I can't justify the cost at the moment. But I do believe it's an excellent vehicle. If I could get one for $35K, I would be all over it. I love pure series hybrids. But the best lease deals involve massive down payments or ridiculously low miles.

 

[cwerdna]

I've never quite understood the i3 personally. It just strikes me as a Leaf that's slightly faster but 25% more expensive. The REx is so crippled it seems much better to go without it and enjoy the higher range / faster acceleration on all-electric.

It's actually much faster than the Leaf, in terms of acceleration. At the beginning, the i3 lease prices were insane. It was about 2x the total cost of lease compared to a Leaf.

The REx does provide a pretty decent safety net to get home or to the next charging stop, provided you don't need to climb any steep hills. Being able to run the battery down to flat w/o too much fear is a fairly big plus.

The biggest downsides besides its small size, high price and lack of US DC FC infrastructure compared to CHAdeMO (esp. outside CA) seems to be terrible reliability (and very long waits for parts during some repairs). Have fun, if you get unlucky...

Then, there are some design flaws, some fairly serious/major like blown KLEs, broken motor mounts (unclear if this is a design prob or just a defect), buggy auto-park feature that bumps into curbs and damages wheels, and camera based adaptive cruise control that has trouble w/some lighting conditions and can disengage suddenly (old behavior was that the VERY strong regen would kick in, which is dangerous; not sure about now).

I have no time, desire nor patience to pay a huge price premium to risk having a new "hobby" by having to keep going back to the dealer and paying a lease to receive loaners.

I've seen enough horror stories on the i3 Facebook group numerous folks w/i3's have had more visits to the shop within the first 6 months than any of my Japanese cars have had for repairs over MANY years. And, overnight stays for my Japanese cars have been virtually unheard of (I can only recall 1, where the dealer held it to repro a problem that seemed to only repro when cold/after overnight soak) vs. the several week stays some of them have had.

About the only thing that would convince me to even want to lease an i3 (assuming I was willing to overlook its styling) is that it'd have to have a total cost of lease price around that of of the Fiat 500e frenzy deal or some of the Spark EV deals I'd heard about or LESS. More than a Leaf? Forget about it.

 

[epirali]

The i3 REx is the perfect car for me, except for the price. The BMW logo is an expensive feature, and I can't justify the cost at the moment. But I do believe it's an excellent vehicle. If I could get one for $35K, I would be all over it. I love pure series hybrids. But the best lease deals involve massive down payments or ridiculously low miles.

Right now you can get new 2014 w/Rex still on lot for around $37k and better lease deals.

 

[kubel]

The only $37K i3 REx's I've seen include tax rebates in the price, which effectively makes them ~$41K. I would be all over a 2014 i3 REx if it was $37K before $7500, but from what I understand, only 2015+ leases pass on the full $7500 in the form of lease cash.

I've also been looking into a used REx, but the prices are way too high.

 

[epirali]

The only $37K i3 REx's I've seen include tax rebates in the price, which effectively makes them ~$41K. I would be all over a 2014 i3 REx if it was $37K before $7500, but from what I understand, only 2015+ leases pass on the full $7500 in the form of lease cash.

I've also been looking into a used REx, but the prices are way too high.

Here is Maryland there are a couple that are that price WITHOUT the rebate. Same dealer will lease same no money down and $400/mo.

 

[Stanton]

Very interesting comments; thanks for sharing.

 

[rayleiwu2]

Thanks for sharing comments! I'm a long time BMW owner, in fact I still have a 07 335i which has been sitting in garage all the time after I brought 2015 LEAF LS home! I know BMW is an expensive logo, but not for batteries and electric motor, IMHO. I will definitely grab another 335i in the future but not i3. Why? Because BMW produces most practical sport cars plus best turbo-charged engines on earth (their engines have earned most world awards over the years). My take is simple: if I need a sport car, I will go BMW gas engine; if I need an electric, LEAF is the only option for me (not even a Tesla which is far over priced for an EV in my option.)

Just my 2c

 

[eloder]

Thanks for sharing comments! I'm a long time BMW owner, in fact I still have a 07 335i which has been sitting in garage all the time after I brought 2015 LEAF LS home! I know BMW is an expensive logo, but not for batteries and electric motor, IMHO. I will definitely grab another 335i in the future but not i3. Why? Because BMW produces most practical sport cars plus best turbo-charged engines on earth (their engines have earned most world awards over the years). My take is simple: if I need a sport car, I will go BMW gas engine; if I need an electric, LEAF is the only option for me (not even a Tesla which is far over priced for an EV in my option.)

Just my 2c

The Tesla is worth considering, because it's a far better sports car than anything else in the price range Give a P85D a test drive and unless you're really attached to the roaring ICE sounds, you'll be a Tesla convert.

 

[rayleiwu2]

Thanks for sharing comments! I'm a long time BMW owner, in fact I still have a 07 335i which has been sitting in garage all the time after I brought 2015 LEAF LS home! I know BMW is an expensive logo, but not for batteries and electric motor, IMHO. I will definitely grab another 335i in the future but not i3. Why? Because BMW produces most practical sport cars plus best turbo-charged engines on earth (their engines have earned most world awards over the years). My take is simple: if I need a sport car, I will go BMW gas engine; if I need an electric, LEAF is the only option for me (not even a Tesla which is far over priced for an EV in my option.)

Just my 2c

The Tesla is worth considering, because it's a far better sports car than anything else in the price range Give a P85D a test drive and unless you're really attached to the roaring ICE sounds, you'll be a Tesla convert.

Charging is the deal breaker even though Tesla has a real world range of 200 miles per charge. At $120K price range I would prefer a LEAF (~$23k) for daily commute + a decent sport ICE sedan (~$80k) for vacations or long trips.

 

[CMYK4Life]

I made the leap from 2013 Leaf SV to 2014 BMW i3 REX in January 2015.

Nothing wrong with the Leaf. I loved it, it was my first EV, I learned a lot about EV's and what my wants/needs are as a driver; I have fond memories of my Leaf. When I got into my 2013 Leaf I was hopeful that by 2015 the 'next gen Leaf' would be out (or close) come to find out...it wasn't.

I looked at the 2015 Leaf and it looked and felt just like my 2013... which looked like the 2012,2011,and 2010. This may seem vein but and I didnt want a 2015 that looked like the 2010 version of the same car with little or no additional range or performance changes. I guess I just got bored with it and Nissan didnt have any EV alternatives for me to get into so I started looking around. This is one reason why I leased - I figured my WANT's might change.

The i3 is more expensive. You are paying for the brand and some tech that is not in the Leaf. I enjoy driving a BMW - my friends and family 'notice' that MUCH more than they did with the Leaf. And that is part of it for MANY car buyers... the looks they get... the head turning factor.

Here are some things that are in my i3 Rex that were not my Leaf:

Liquid cooled batteries
Need I say more?

Carbon Fiber
New tech for a consumer level car - pretty neat, makes the car lighter, kind of futuristic.

Range Extender/REX
Michigan winters are brutal, 2 winters with the Leaf and ~45miles of range gets really old, so you need a second car, a Tesla, or REX/PHEV.

BMW Brand - The i3 is the 'Bimmer' in my immediate or extended family. They say 'Wow' when I say 'BMW i3' instead of a blank stare when I said 'Nissan Leaf'.

The BMW is smaller but still meets my needs. My wife, son, and I can all fit in it and get to granny's house on the weekend with all our stuff. A month or so ago we went to a Detroit Tigers game and were able to go 300+ miles combined EV+REX. I charged when I could (overnight L1 after game at families house) and used 1 gallon of gas total.

What I find most liberating about the i3 is that although I charged when I could it didn't RULE my day! It was 'like driving a normal car' where you can get in and go without a plan. Dont get me wrong, I still drive and plan like its a pure EV - Im still cheap and dont want to pay for gas at all (why I got into EV's) - but its there when you need it; like those frigid winter days in Michigan where I want to drive more than 45 miles with the heat on. For me its just a more usable car in terms of convenient transportation for the life I live.

Is it all worth the price? For me, yeah. But thats a question each consumer must ask themselves. I only leased the i3 Rex for two years like I did the Leaf... if next gen Leaf is there with a bigger battery or at least some new styling... I will consider it... I will also be considering the Chevy Bolt, the Tesla III, and BMW i3 again. I am not married to the Rex but at this point in EV development... it bridges the gap between EV efficiency and practical use in all 4 seasons. I often tell non-EV people the i3 is 'Volt like, with a bigger battery' and 'the i3 is an EV first with a gas generator backup; the engine is small and does not also drive the wheels like the Volt'.

No matter what happens I am excited to see what the market looks like in 2017.