A day of firsts... stranded on the freeway

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trojanm50

Active member
Joined
Apr 11, 2011
Messages
41
Location
SF Bay Area
Last Friday was a day of many firsts for me.

First time I was driving with the Leaf Spy App on my new android device bought just for the app (We EV enthusiasts buy a phone to run an app!)
First time I was driving my usual 66 mile RT commute after getting new tires
First time I got stranded completely discharged on the freeway

My leaf: 2011, 35k miles, lost a bar at 32k miles. (It has always been garaged and parked indoor in a relatively cool parking structure for most part. )I recently got new tires as the Ecopias were completely worn out. Since range was an issue with the Michelin, I went with the Pirelli P7. I only had to go to work one day since when I changed my tires and since I had errands to run, I had a planned on a QC stop that time.

Friday started out as any other day. I had installed the leaf spy app the week before and this was the first time I would be using it on my usual commute. I preheated my car as it was cold, when I started I had 89.4% SOC.

I drove 33 miles approx, under 60mph, no heater and temperature set to 60. The first sign that things were off was that I usually lose 5 bars and just about lose the 6th bar. My dash tells me I have 3 (or 2.5 sometime) hours to reach 100% charge. Today it was showing 3.5 hours. SOC was at 48%. I knew something was off but I was still confident of making it home. I had lost 7 bars getting to work.

On the way back when I was about 12 miles from home I kinda knew that I was unlikely to make it home since I hit the VLBW. About 5.5 miles from home, I hit turtle mode, don't recall the SOC. Unfortunately I hit turtle just after I passed an exit. I was hoping to make it to the next exit which I knew had a charger close by. A little more than 1.5 miles after that, my car completely died and I had been driving on the shoulder limping along hoping I could make it to the exit.

At SOC 2.3%, my car would not go into D or R anymore. I called Nissan roadside assistance and AAA. AAA was kind enough to make it a high priority call as I was on the shoulder. Both had a 45 minute wait. Eventually the Nissan Roadside assistance tow truck driver called me and I cancelled AAA. The tow truck driver was curious about my EV! He was kind enough to get me as close to my drive way as possible. After about 2.5 hours on 120v charging, I was able to pull into my garage.

I had driven a total of 61.9 miles before I ran completely SOL. My tire PSI was 32. This weekend I increased the PSI and I plan to run some more tests this week. If I don't get atleast 75 miles as I did before, I may have to take my car back to get the Ecopias even though I think the P7s are quieter.

Any suggestions on anything else that could have changed? I was warned that the new tires would cos some range loss because of increased LRR but I was hoping that would settle down after 1k miles. Anyone else with P7 tires notice that their range loss did not revert after a while?

EDIT: To all the leafs that passed me on the shoulder on Friday, next time you see a stranded leaf, honk as a sign of solidarity :p
 
Bummer dude.

I ran out of juice twice. Both due to poor decision making by me! The killer was I was less than 1 mile from an EVSE each time so it took longer to hook up to the tow truck than it did to trasnport the car...

Glad you are safe.
 
In my experience with my Prius, it takes a few thousand miles for ANY tires to break in before the mileage gets back to normal. I've taken quite a hit since installing Michelins on the LEAF, and I'm hoping this holds true for me also.
 
trojanm50 said:
Last Friday was a day of many firsts for me.

First time I was driving with the Leaf Spy App on my new android device bought just for the app (We EV enthusiasts buy a phone to run an app!)

Any suggestions on anything else that could have changed?

Yes, as soon as you noticed that you weren't "going to make it" you should have pulled off the highway and taken city roads, driving at 25mph. You likely would have saved a lot of time and made it home.

Additionally, since you have LeafSpy, you could have used the minimum voltage to tell you that you are getting very near turtle. My 2013 Leafs turtle at min volts=3.00, I suspect so do the 2011 and 2012 Leafs. I'm sure that information is somewhere on these forums. Also, you could have used the GIDS to let you know how much range you had left, though accuracy of GIDS readings near turtle are not very good.
 
trojanm50 said:
I had driven a total of 61.9 miles before I ran completely SOL. My tire PSI was 32. This weekend I increased the PSI and I plan to run some more tests this week. If I don't get atleast 75 miles as I did before, I may have to take my car back to get the Ecopias even though I think the P7s are quieter.

32 PSI sounds low for just about any car, especially the Leaf. I keep mine around 38 PSI. I'm not sure if that alone is your issue, but I'm sure it is a contributing factor.
 
stjohnh said:
Yes, as soon as you noticed that you weren't "going to make it" you should have pulled off the highway and taken city roads, driving at 25mph. You likely would have saved a lot of time and made it home.
Even better would be to look for an L2 charging station and stop there for 30 minutes before trying to make it home.
 
trojanm50 said:
I drove 33 miles approx, under 60mph, no heater and temperature set to 60.
Setting the CC to 60 doesn't automatically turn off the heater in your car. If it's cold enough, it'll still run. Make sure to turn the climate all the way off to be sure you don't run the heater (or get the climate control mod from Ingineer).

32 PSI is way too low. I'd recommend 40 PSI or whatever the maximum PSI stated on the sidewall is on those tires.
 
Exactly. Rolling resistance goes up exponentially with lower tire pressure. I suspect at 40 to 44 pounds you would have just barely made it...

adric22 said:
32 PSI sounds low for just about any car, especially the Leaf. I keep mine around 38 PSI. I'm not sure if that alone is your issue, but I'm sure it is a contributing factor.
 
Sorry to hear about this trojanm50...

I encountered my first turtle and SOL situation almost exactly a year ago. Combination of heavy rain and minor defroster use were probably enough to use up enough energy to push things over the edge. The replacement Michelins (even at 40 PSI, and fairly new at the time) may have also been a factor compared to the OEM Ecopias.

In my case, for the first 1.5 years, I had usually taken the 57 mile (each way) route from SJ to SF, by going on 101 to 380/280 to 19th Ave. I would be at LBW by the time I get to my parents' house, and would need to charge 2-3 hours using the upgraded EVSE. 380 and 280 north going uphill really saps the range, but the return trip (19th South, 280 to 380 and 101 S is all downhill or straight).

So last winter, had it been a dry, night, I likely would have made it back to San Jose at LBW or VLBW. I had even charged that night at Premier a few miles from home for 30 minutes--thinking that would be enough. But apparently it wasn't, and I ended up with a dead battery .5 miles from home. Had I had the LEAF DD device, I would have had a better idea of how much is enough to make it home.

Now I'm at 28 months, 43K miles, with 1 bar missing (I might be on the verge of losing 2 soon), and I know for sure I would need to DCFC at least once on the way up to SF (though I haven't used the DCFC since the Blink bankruptcy). I would need 100% charge up in SF to feel comfortable to head back to SJ.

Car is still useful, though I've done more opportunity charging than I used to. I need 100% charge on a daily basis to go 45-50 miles/day. Though the ongoing concern is what happens when I lose 2-4 bars over time...and what options Nissan will present next year for either battery leasing or replacement battery costs? I've been averaging 1500-1600 miles/month.




trojanm50 said:
Last Friday was a day of many firsts for me.

First time I was driving with the Leaf Spy App on my new android device bought just for the app (We EV enthusiasts buy a phone to run an app!)
First time I was driving my usual 66 mile RT commute after getting new tires
First time I got stranded completely discharged on the freeway

My leaf: 2011, 35k miles, lost a bar at 32k miles. (It has always been garaged and parked indoor in a relatively cool parking structure for most part. )I recently got new tires as the Ecopias were completely worn out. Since range was an issue with the Michelin, I went with the Pirelli P7. I only had to go to work one day since when I changed my tires and since I had errands to run, I had a planned on a QC stop that time.

Friday started out as any other day. I had installed the leaf spy app the week before and this was the first time I would be using it on my usual commute. I preheated my car as it was cold, when I started I had 89.4% SOC.

I drove 33 miles approx, under 60mph, no heater and temperature set to 60. The first sign that things were off was that I usually lose 5 bars and just about lose the 6th bar. My dash tells me I have 3 (or 2.5 sometime) hours to reach 100% charge. Today it was showing 3.5 hours. SOC was at 48%. I knew something was off but I was still confident of making it home. I had lost 7 bars getting to work.

On the way back when I was about 12 miles from home I kinda knew that I was unlikely to make it home since I hit the VLBW. About 5.5 miles from home, I hit turtle mode, don't recall the SOC. Unfortunately I hit turtle just after I passed an exit. I was hoping to make it to the next exit which I knew had a charger close by. A little more than 1.5 miles after that, my car completely died and I had been driving on the shoulder limping along hoping I could make it to the exit.

At SOC 2.3%, my car would not go into D or R anymore. I called Nissan roadside assistance and AAA. AAA was kind enough to make it a high priority call as I was on the shoulder. Both had a 45 minute wait. Eventually the Nissan Roadside assistance tow truck driver called me and I cancelled AAA. The tow truck driver was curious about my EV! He was kind enough to get me as close to my drive way as possible. After about 2.5 hours on 120v charging, I was able to pull into my garage.

I had driven a total of 61.9 miles before I ran completely SOL. My tire PSI was 32. This weekend I increased the PSI and I plan to run some more tests this week. If I don't get atleast 75 miles as I did before, I may have to take my car back to get the Ecopias even though I think the P7s are quieter.

Any suggestions on anything else that could have changed? I was warned that the new tires would cos some range loss because of increased LRR but I was hoping that would settle down after 1k miles. Anyone else with P7 tires notice that their range loss did not revert after a while?

EDIT: To all the leafs that passed me on the shoulder on Friday, next time you see a stranded leaf, honk as a sign of solidarity :p
 
Any new tire will reduce efficiency and range vs the hard thin rubber of an old tire. I have found my tires (GY Triple Tread) improving after 1500 miles. With the old ecopias I would easily gain speed coasting down a slight incline at the start of the commute. The new tires would lose speed when first installed. It has now changed where I can coast again although I do not gain as much speed as I used to. Hard to directly compare to the oem tire when first driven almost three years ago.
 
TomT said:
No it is not. As revealed in the details, there was much more at play here. Nothing would make me stick with those pieces of crap...
are you saying that the first thing that you did after taking delivery of your LEAF was to remove the tires that were designed for the vehicle replaced with new less efficient tires? please elaborate on your motivation for this
 
apvbguy said:
the take away from incidents like this is to stick with the OEM tires
If only OEM tires were useable for anything but dry paved road. As much as I don't like the performance hit Leaf with OEM tires is completely useless in Iowa in winter. It was also only marginally better on wet pavement.

OEM tires are compromise chosen based on some assumption. In case of Leaf I'm afraid it's rolling resistance above all.
 
Climate control, fan etc was turned off and the temp was set to the lowest. If there is another way to save energy on the climate control other than Phils mod, please tell me how.

Since 66 miles was within my range, I did not plan a QC stop. I dont think its feasible to regularly stop at a QC station every time I need to drive 66 miles . At that point
a) The PHEV Prius or even regular Prius become more economical and less time consuming
b) I need to swallow my pride and let the leaf "go", I will take a severe hit but I guess that comes with experimenting with new technology
I have now set my tires to much higher PSI, I need to test it out this week.

CayenneSJLEAFy, my concerns are right there along with yours. Im hoping Judge Kozinski can kick Capstone and Sedgwick's butt. I did not get a notice of the Class action and was too busy with other things at the time and did not opt out.
 
Tomasz said:
apvbguy said:
the take away from incidents like this is to stick with the OEM tires
If only OEM tires were useable for anything but dry paved road. As much as I don't like the performance hit Leaf with OEM tires is completely useless in Iowa in winter. It was also only marginally better on wet pavement.

OEM tires are compromise chosen based on some assumption. In case of Leaf I'm afraid it's rolling resistance above all.


Im still with in the 30 day period to take my tires back and the Ecopia's are an option if increasing the PSI on the P7 does not give me the needed range.
I would like to know if anyone else has had any experience with sticking with Ecopia- does it cos range loss on account of better grip compared to older tires? If so how much range loss?

And Of course, im hoping any data on the P7 would also be useful.
 
You might want to consider that the Ecopias are more fragile (probably due to more flexible sidewalls) than most tires. There are other Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tires out there that perform better. If you do get them, increasing inflation pressure to 38 - 42psi seems to help. Others run even higher pressures, but I'm not comfortable suggesting anything above the sidewall maximum, minus 2psi for gauge error...

are you saying that the first thing that you did after taking delivery of your LEAF was to remove the tires that were designed for the vehicle replaced with new less efficient tires? please elaborate on your motivation for this

Please elaborate on your assertion that the Ecopias were designed for the Leaf. ;-) Our Prius has them as well, and it's a very different car. The Ecopias seem to have been designed to offer low rolling resistance at a low price for OEM use. Not much else more than that.
 
Stoaty said:
stjohnh said:
Yes, as soon as you noticed that you weren't "going to make it" you should have pulled off the highway and taken city roads, driving at 25mph. You likely would have saved a lot of time and made it home.
Even better would be to look for an L2 charging station and stop there for 30 minutes before trying to make it home.
For once I don't think I agree with you, Stoaty. I've been below LBW more than 100 times, and never yet hit turtle, except the one time I did it intentionally. My response is what stjohnh said, except that I usually figure I can make it at 35-40 mph.

trojanm50 didn't say how far out he was at LBW, but given freeway speed and VLBW at 12 miles away, I'll guess 20 miles. 20 miles after LBW is easy if you slow down enough. And 20 miles at 30 mph only takes 40 minutes. Looking for an L2 and stopping there for 30 minutes will also take 40 minutes of your time, with little if any progress toward your destination. Besides, 30 minutes of L2 on trojanm50's 2011 would only give him about 5 or 6 miles farther on the freeway. You can't (or at least most of us can't) make 15 miles on the freeway after LBW.

Ray
 
LeftieBiker said:
You might want to consider that the Ecopias are more fragile (probably due to more flexible sidewalls) than most tires. There are other Low Rolling Resistance (LRR) tires out there that perform better. If you do get them, increasing inflation pressure to 38 - 42psi seems to help. Others run even higher pressures, but I'm not comfortable suggesting anything above the sidewall maximum, minus 2psi for gauge error...

are you saying that the first thing that you did after taking delivery of your LEAF was to remove the tires that were designed for the vehicle replaced with new less efficient tires? please elaborate on your motivation for this

Please elaborate on your assertion that the Ecopias were designed for the Leaf. ;-) Our Prius has them as well, and it's a very different car. The Ecopias seem to have been designed to offer low rolling resistance at a low price for OEM use. Not much else more than that.

Other than Michelin, P7 and the Bridgestone, which other tires are recommended? I can look up the tires by size but is there already a list of tires that are known to not impact the range or reduce the impact? I have increased the PSI. The tires are tested to at least 20% more than the max value.
 
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