60 mile commute - Am I pushing my luck with a used Leaf?

[famelec]

I'm thinking about getting a used Leaf for environmental reasons, but want to understand better how practical it will be for my commute.

My daily commute is about 60 miles, two-thirds of which are country highway (60 to 70 mph, some stoplights) and about a third suburban driving. The entire route is somewhat rolling hill driving. I'll have 240 volts at home, and I can charge at work on 120 volts if I need to. I usually drive a few extra miles for lunch. There are not charging stations on the route.

I won't sell my regular car, so if a few days or weeks a year I can't drive the Leaf to work in the winter, I'm OK with that. But with battery degradation, will I be pushing my luck for rest of the year? I'm looking at getting a 2012 or 2013 SV or SL.

Let me know your thoughts or recommendations.

 

[dhanson865]

I'm thinking about getting a used Leaf for environmental reasons, but want to understand better how practical it will be for my commute.

My daily commute is about 60 miles, two-thirds of which are country highway (60 to 70 mph, some stoplights) and about a third suburban driving. The entire route is somewhat rolling hill driving. I'll have 240 volts at home, and I can charge at work on 120 volts if I need to. I usually drive a few extra miles for lunch. There are not charging stations on the route.

I won't sell my regular car, so if a few days or weeks a year I can't drive the Leaf to work in the winter, I'm OK with that. But with battery degradation, will I be pushing my luck for rest of the year? I'm looking at getting a 2012 or 2013 SV or SL.

Let me know your thoughts or recommendations.

How would you feel about the car speaking out loud to you over the speakers twice each way saying "low battery warning" and "very low battery warning"?

How comfortable are you with using an android phone with an OBDII adapter? You'll want the leafspy app before you buy a car to check for degradation and after you buy a car to be able to drive past low battery warning with any real sense of how much range you have left in the VLBW portion of the drive.

How would you deal with having to slow down if the battery degrades? You might have to slow down the first time it rains even (due to range, not safety of driving at speed)

You'd have to be on top of your range and tire pressures, temps, lights, AC/Heat, speed all the time. Leafspy will let you see the tire pressures as you drive and that could save you if you set the alarm PSI high enough but a leak or flat tire will cut your range and have you charging on 120V or calling a tow truck.

Forgetting a wallet or ID badge or whatever at home and not realizing it until you get to work means you can't turn around and just drive back to get it. You are stuck at one end or the other of that commute for the time it takes to recharge. Think recharging to full every night and still having to recharge at work all day as well (8 hours on 120V gets me about 40 miles range and you'll need every bit of that if you mean 60 miles to and 60 miles from + lunch for about 125 miles a day).

It's doable but if you are pushing it on a regular basis you have to adjust to the limitations.

Being that far south you are guaranteed to see degradation. I'd think you'd want to wait for a 2015 model to be cheap enough after those drivers upgrade to a newer EV. But then I bought a used 2012 SL with one bar lost and the 2nd one about to go knowing it would be cheaper to wait because I wanted a better car so I could retire a much older gas vehicle.

oh and as a sanity check go to evtriplanner.com and plug in your normal route (click on route energy planner on the left, change the ev model from Tesla to Leaf, calculate a route, and look at the steps and details tabs showing rated miles vs actual). Play with the speed multiplier vs the speeds it says for each leg of the trip on the steps or details tab. It'll give you a decent idea what elevation, temp, and speed will do.

 

[GerryAZ]

If your commute is 30 miles each way for a daily total of 60 miles, you could make it work with reliable 120-volt charging at work and 240-volt charging overnight at home. That being said, I recommend that you look for an electric vehicle with more range than the Leaf because you will need the 120-volt charging at work to make it home once the battery in the Leaf loses some of its capacity. This means you would not be able to leave work and make it home for a family emergency without some time on 120-volt charging.

If you can depend upon the availability of 120-volt charging at work and you decide to get a Leaf, I strongly recommend a 2013 or newer SV or SL so that you get the heat pump. You would need to modify the HVAC controls on a 2012 (or 2011) to allow ventilation without the heater coming on in order to make your commute when the outside temperature drops below 60 degrees F.

Direct answer to your question: You would be pushing your luck to make your commute with a Leaf every day, especially after the battery starts to lose capacity.

Gerry

 

[LeftieBiker]

You'd be much better off with a used Volt or Prius PHEV, if you can find one. The Volt would let you drive in EV mode more than 2/3 of the time, while the Prius would let you average 75MPG or so, with no loss of performance when the EV charge is exhausted.

 

[Graffi]

IT DEPENDS ON THE USED LEAF YOU GET.

Our MY2013SL was built in 8/2013 with a US made battery. In 2 years and 28,000 miles we have lost "MAYBE" one mile of range, maybe. I think Nissan did something different in our battery than those before which suffer loss. The only way to know for sure is drive it city driving on somewhat flat surface for 5 hours, until the car stops, to know how much range you really have.

That said, if you were to get a MY2013 like mine (not an eariler MY2013 with Japan made battery) I would feel very confident that you can get 80+ miles on a full charge without the recharge at work. Howevery, I would recommend that you do charge at work if the employer allows just so you always have extra range "just in case".

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

I'm thinking about getting a used Leaf for environmental reasons, but want to understand better how practical it will be for my commute.

My daily commute is about 60 miles, two-thirds of which are country highway (60 to 70 mph, some stoplights) and about a third suburban driving. The entire route is somewhat rolling hill driving. I'll have 240 volts at home, and I can charge at work on 120 volts if I need to. I usually drive a few extra miles for lunch. There are not charging stations on the route.

I won't sell my regular car, so if a few days or weeks a year I can't drive the Leaf to work in the winter, I'm OK with that. But with battery degradation, will I be pushing my luck for rest of the year? I'm looking at getting a 2012 or 2013 SV or SL.

Let me know your thoughts or recommendations.

Have you considered leasing new? Good deals right now before the 30kWh cars arrive.

60 miles RT? If the L1 at work is guaranteed and dependable, you should be OK, especially if you go with a '13 with a heat pump. Eight hours on L1 will give you 30 miles.

 

[TimLee]

Bad idea.
See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=6&t=20523#p436252 for the dismay of a recent purchaser of a used 2011.
Although 2013 SV or SL may be new enough to be a bit more workable and they have the heat pump heater that reduces cold weather range loss some down to around 10F.

I have been pointing out for way more than two years that a used 2011 LEAF is more realistically a 40 to 60 mile range vehicle.
And in cold weather if you like heat a 30 to 35 mile range vehicle.
Not a good choice for OPs commute.

 

[dhanson865]

If your commute is 30 miles each way for a daily total of 60 miles

If so I'd say it isn't an issue. I wrote my whole giant response assuming he is doing 60 miles each way. The difference between 65 miles a day and 125 miles a day is a lot of charging.

 

[GerryAZ]

If your commute is 30 miles each way for a daily total of 60 miles

If so I'd say it isn't an issue. I wrote my whole giant response assuming he is doing 60 miles each way. The difference between 65 miles a day and 125 miles a day is a lot of charging.

You have a lot of good information to consider in your long response (which I did not see until after posting my reply). As noted in my first reply, I am reluctant to recommend the Leaf because charging at work will be necessary after the battery capacity drops. 65 miles per charge at highway speed is easy when the battery is new if the resistance heater is not on. Run the resistance heater or factor in some battery deterioration and highway speed must drop to make 65 miles on a charge (allowing 5 miles for errands, etc.). If charging at work is assured, then a Leaf with heat pump (2013 or newer SV or SL) is workable.

Gerry

 

[famelec]

I appreciate all the responses. FWIW, I have a 60 mile round trip commute, so 30 miles each way.

Based on your comments it sound like it could be a reasonable proposition with at 2013 or newer Leaf SV or SL. But if I have to make a double commute to go home for a forgotten phone / computer / briefcase, which happens two or three times a year, it would clearly be problematic.

My original plan was to wait a couple of more years to save up for a Tesla Model 3 (or maybe an S) which would really be more practical for me. But rather than wait 2 years to go electric, my thought was to drive a low-cost Leaf for a couple of years until then. A Volt would really be the safer choice for now; however, the fact that it has a gas engine feels a bit like cheating. I'd rather go all electric than with a hybrid or range extending gas engine...

 

[dhanson865]

fwiw my coworker has a 2012 similar condition to mine and drives 26 miles each way vs my 16. So he is doing 50-55 miles a day vs my 35-40 miles a day.

I guess we'll find out this winter how well that works for him, but for now he can make the round trip just charging at home (we both charge at work for free but if that goes away it wouldn't affect him in the spring/summer/fall).

 

[GRA]

I appreciate all the responses. FWIW, I have a 60 mile round trip commute, so 30 miles each way.

Based on your comments it sound like it could be a reasonable proposition with at 2013 or newer Leaf SV or SL. But if I have to make a double commute to go home for a forgotten phone / computer / briefcase, which happens two or three times a year, it would clearly be problematic.

My original plan was to wait a couple of more years to save up for a Tesla Model 3 (or maybe an S) which would really be more practical for me. But rather than wait 2 years to go electric, my thought was to drive a low-cost Leaf for a couple of years until then. A Volt would really be the safer choice for now; however, the fact that it has a gas engine feels a bit like cheating. I'd rather go all electric than with a hybrid or range extending gas engine...

With a 30 mile one-way commute and L1 charging at work, a Volt will allow you to do virtually all your commuting (except when the temp really drops) on the battery, and still be able to make long trips with the same convenience as any other fossil-fueled car, with zero range anxiety. You're in the ideal situation for a Volt - think of it as a Model 3 available in 2010 instead of 2017 (or likely later). A 2013 or later Volt will have 'Hold" mode (plus a few more miles of range) as well as 'Normal', 'Sport' and 'Mountain' mode ,but since you're in Texas the lack of 'Hold' mode is unlikely to be a major issue for you. Get a used Volt for a few years, until the BEV you really want is available and affordable.

 

[billg]

My daily commute is about 60 miles,...

I won't sell my regular car, so if a few days or weeks a year I can't drive the Leaf to work in the winter, I'm OK with that.

Heck yes, get a 2013 or newer and don't worry about it. You'll never have a problem.

 

[tkdbrusco]

You will be fine with a 2013 or newer leaf with a 60mi round trip comment, even without 120v charging at work. My round trip commute is about 55 miles and my wife's is 62 and we can both do it no problem. We have a 2015 S (no hybrid heater!). I do my commute with about 45% remaining when I get home, she can do hers with about 35% left (she drives it faster than I do). Drop those numbers by about 5% on the really hot days, and by about 10% on the coldest of winter days (assuming that you pre-heat the car). Even with modest battery degradation you'd be fine. Our 2015 has 17K miles on it and we've experiences less than 2% battery degradation in the past nearly year and a half of ownership. Also rolling hills are probably your best bet for efficiency, once you learn the car and its capabilities, you'll be able to maximize the regen in that situation. If you pick up an SV or an SL with the hybrid heater you'd be even less concerned about the commute. I say go for it.

 

[GerryAZ]

I appreciate all the responses. FWIW, I have a 60 mile round trip commute, so 30 miles each way.

Based on your comments it sound like it could be a reasonable proposition with at 2013 or newer Leaf SV or SL. But if I have to make a double commute to go home for a forgotten phone / computer / briefcase, which happens two or three times a year, it would clearly be problematic.

My earlier posts were meant to clearly point out the possible problems and may have been more negative than necessary. If conditions allow for driving slower (40 to 50 mi/hr for the return home) on the rare occasion when you need to return home soon after arriving at work, you should be able to make it home without charging. Someone suggested leasing a 2015 SV (or SL) for two years. That would be a good way to go because you would be starting with a new battery, have the heat pump, and be covered by the full bumper-to-bumper warranty with roadside assistance (which will tow you to the nearest charging station if you run out of power).

My commute is 26 miles each way, mostly urban freeway (carpool lane) with about 5 miles on surface/neighborhood streets. I was able to make the 52-mile round trip with comfortable A/C use even when the original battery in the 2011 was down to 8 capacity bars, but I had virtually nothing left when I arrived home each evening (several miles driven after VLBW so almost to Turtle). After Nissan replaced the battery under warranty, range was no issue (although I still had to minimize heater use) until the car met its demise. I should also mention that the battery in the 2015 seems to be holding its capacity better than either the original or replacement battery in the 2011.

Gerry

 

[tkdbrusco]

If you have a 60mi round trip commute, a lease is pretty much not an option. My wife has a 62mi round trip commute and with normal around town driving we put about 16,500 miles a year on the car, much more than even the highest lease we get. At 20 cents a mile for even a 1,500 overage, you're talking $600 at lease end for a 2 year lease.

 

[davewill]

I appreciate all the responses. FWIW, I have a 60 mile round trip commute, so 30 miles each way.

Based on your comments it sound like it could be a reasonable proposition with at 2013 or newer Leaf SV or SL. But if I have to make a double commute to go home for a forgotten phone / computer / briefcase, which happens two or three times a year, it would clearly be problematic. ...

Perhaps not. In good weather, you could probably make the whole 60mi RT without needing a charge, so going back, then taking the ICE car back to work would be OK. Is there any fast charging close to your route? If so, and you get the fast charge port, you would always be able to top up in a pinch. The same would go for a normal public charging location near the route. An hour of regular charge would be enough to be sure you got back even in bad weather.

 

[TimLee]

It is a question of how zealous the OP is.
As some of the zealous LEAF drivers have noted it could be made to work for a couple years.

But it will require zeal, and compromise.

Maybe the OP has that.

But a large majority do not consider a 2013 SV or SL to be a good choice for a 60 mile roundtrip commute.
The OP should keep in mind it is a fairly silent majority.
When such a question is asked, most of the response is from the zealous and those willing to make it work no matter what.

OP has to determine which group they are in.

 

[GRA]

It is a question of how zealous the OP is.
As some of the zealous LEAF drivers have noted it could be made to work for a couple years.

But it will require zeal, and compromise.

Maybe the OP has that.

But a large majority do not consider a 2013 SV or SL to be a good choice for a 60 mile roundtrip commute.
The OP should keep in mind it is a fairly silent majority.
When such a question is asked, most of the response is from the zealous and those willing to make it work no matter what.

OP has to determine which group they are in.

+1.

 

[abasile]

It is a question of how zealous the OP is.
As some of the zealous LEAF drivers have noted it could be made to work for a couple years.

Well stated. I had a more challenging (for the LEAF) commute than the OP and made it work for almost two years. My commute was 46 miles round trip, with a 4,900' mountain descent/climb, and permission to use a 120 V outlet at work "in emergencies only". By the time I left that job in 2014, I was parking the 2011 LEAF partway to work and bicycling the rest of the way. While it helped that I am an avid cyclist and appreciated the regular exercise, there was no way I was going to give up on my EV and start commuting with a gasoline car. I would rather be remembered for some over-the-top zeal than for merely going with the flow. (Moving closer to work might be a great solution if sticking with the same employer/location for a while, but that obviously wasn't my situation.)

So, considering that the OP is motivated by concern for the environment that our children will inherit, he/she could certainly get a LEAF, and take extra steps to avoid forgetting important work items at home. Perhaps a phone alarm, post-it notes, etc. could be used as reminders.

Once you have your used LEAF (or Volt), start saving your gas money (and then some) toward a future Tesla purchase.