411 on volontary recall P1273 LEAF VCM LBC TCU NTB12-014

[TimeHorse]

Funny how a topic about the recall/upgrade has morphed into a thread about charging timers. Yes, I know, it happens all the time. Moderators slacking off a little?

My point is with the new TCU Firmware instead of setting "finish by 07:40 to finish by 05:00", I now need to set "finish by 06:40 to finish by 05:00". They shaved an hour off their gross overestimate!

I finished at 04:26 last night so I'll up it to finish 06:40 tonight and see what happens, though I have an unusual commute today and tomorrow.

 

[DurkaDurka]

Got the apron today - can't even see it (lives on top of the front under cover). As for the recalls, it seems :

P1272 - 2012 only. Door alarm only.
P1273 - 2011 only. I assume this does the door alarm and a few additional things (GOM, HVAC, etc)
P1274 - 2011/2012? door alarm, increased accuracy of distance-to-empty via Smartphone or website. Note, this does not imply the GOM itself.
P2501 - 2011/2012? apron. Part # F2663-3NC1A

My 2012 was delivered Dec 2011, so I only needed P1272 and P2501.

Can anyone provide further detail? I'd really like it if we can figure out exactly what Nissan has changed.

 

[adric22]

I got the update a few days ago.. I noticed something on my way to work this morning. I think they may have possibly changed the behavior of the throttle. I have complained in other threads that if in "D" mode (not ECO) that when pressing the pedal just slightly to accelerate, and holding the pedal at that spot without pressing further, that the power will continue to increase until eventually the car is accelerating at full-throttle even though I barely have the pedal pressed down at all. I was not able to replicate that this morning. I'll try again on my way home to see if it will do it. It used to do it all the time and annoy me to no end.

 

[mdh]

i have a 2011 and had the SW update... it seems like the GOM is dialed in a bit more as i compare it with the Reverse SOC technique and the Range Chart method.... I was not overly scientific.... maybe it is wishful thinking.

 

[EVDRIVER]

I got the update a few days ago.. I noticed something on my way to work this morning. I think they may have possibly changed the behavior of the throttle. I have complained in other threads that if in "D" mode (not ECO) that when pressing the pedal just slightly to accelerate, and holding the pedal at that spot without pressing further, that the power will continue to increase until eventually the car is accelerating at full-throttle even though I barely have the pedal pressed down at all. I was not able to replicate that this morning. I'll try again on my way home to see if it will do it. It used to do it all the time and annoy me to no end.

New shoes?

 

[adric22]

New shoes?

Nope.. I tested again this morning. They have definitely changed the throttle behavior to eliminate that problem.

 

[EVDRIVER]

New shoes?

Nope.. I tested again this morning. They have definitely changed the throttle behavior to eliminate that problem.

It will not ramp on it's own, that is not the way it works. You are likely used to ECo and you get most of the throttle in the first part in D and the car is catching up to the input. If the throttle is held constant there is no signal sent to the inverter to increase output, if this were true on you car then every single LEAF with your firmware would be recalled immediately and everyone would have noticed this. This is perception. My friend was convinced D and ECo had more pedal resistance, it does not it is perception.

 

[lpickup]

You are likely used to ECo and you get most of the throttle in the first part in D and the car is catching up to the input.

I'd tend to agree with your diagnosis, except that I that I do believe that adric22 is a sophisticated enough driver to know the difference. But I do agree that if all cars actually worked this way we would've heard about it. So I think adric's car somehow had a bug/problem. Interesting that the update fixed it though!

(Of course I'm going to try this on my car and see if I can replicate the problem!)

 

[adric22]

This is perception. My friend was convinced D and ECo had more pedal resistance, it does not it is perception.

There have been others on here who have confirmed my experience. So I'm not imagining this. I think most people just don't fully understand what I'm describing. My wife drove the car without ever realizing the issue until I showed her how to reproduce it. A friend of mine is a Toyota mechanic and I had him drive it and explained to him how to reproduce it. He thought it was odd, but suggested it was done that way on purpose to somehow mimic the behavior of an I.C.E, however admitted that an I.C.E. typically doesn't work that way either.

Just to clarify what (was) happening:

Put it in "D" mode. When accelerating from a stop, press the pedal in enough to start accelerating and get your power meter up to about 4 bubbles, but hold the pedal still. If you keep holding the pedal, the bubbles will start increasing about 1 bubble every half-second until it is outputting max power, even though the throttle was never moved. At this point you could press the throttle all the way down and it will not make any difference because the throttle was already maxed out.

After the update, I can do the same experiment but the outcome is different. I press the pedal down to get 4 bubbles of power and hold it, and the car stays at 4 bubbles of power. Sure, it keeps accelerating because 4 bubbles of power is still enough to keep the car accelerating. But it doesn't increase the throttle and if I decide I need more throttle, I can push the pedal down further and more bubbles will appear and you can feel more power being applied from the motor.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

He thought it was odd, but suggested it was done that way on purpose to somehow mimic the behavior of an I.C.E, however admitted that an I.C.E. typically doesn't work that way either.

yes, they do...at least they can. the ICE has to wind up the RPM's on the engine so there is always a delay. that delay used to be a few seconds but with newer computer controlled throttles, etc the delay is minimal

but on older cars, i could take off set the pedal at a position (say depressed 3 inches) and the car would float up to its set speed. in most cases i would have to back off the pedal then reset it once i got to the speed i wanted to drive. this is usually not done by most people because it is essentially accelerating from zero to 40 mph in 20 seconds. most people push the throttle down way past the point needed and slowly back it off until they get to their target speed which means they would not be familiar with the throttle behavior

 

[palmermd]

This is perception. My friend was convinced D and ECo had more pedal resistance, it does not it is perception.

There have been others on here who have confirmed my experience. So I'm not imagining this. ...

Just to clarify what (was) happening:

Put it in "D" mode. When accelerating from a stop, press the pedal in enough to start accelerating and get your power meter up to about 4 bubbles, but hold the pedal still. If you keep holding the pedal, the bubbles will start increasing about 1 bubble every half-second until it is outputting max power, even though the throttle was never moved. At this point you could press the throttle all the way down and it will not make any difference because the throttle was already maxed out.

After the update, I can do the same experiment but the outcome is different. I press the pedal down to get 4 bubbles of power and hold it, and the car stays at 4 bubbles of power. Sure, it keeps accelerating because 4 bubbles of power is still enough to keep the car accelerating. But it doesn't increase the throttle and if I decide I need more throttle, I can push the pedal down further and more bubbles will appear and you can feel more power being applied from the motor.

I've been able to do this as well. I can't do it every time I try, but there is a certain traffic light near my home where I try it every time and it works about 50%. When it works the car accelerates like a bandit, and when it does not, I accelerate like a normal everyday driver. It is fun when it happens and you want it to. Was a little startling the first time it happened when I did not. Also, at any time if you release the pedal, the acceleration stops..but even then, there seems to be a small delay before it does so. Perhaps an F1 launch control sequence is built into the car, and we are just triggering it. haha.

 

[TonyWilliams]

I think something similar has happened a few times with me, where I accelerated and then kept release pedal pressure and it was still accelerating. Doesn't happen enough to have thought much about it.

 

[Ingineer]

This is simply the acceleration ramp showing itself. Over the first few seconds it retards power, then when the ramp expires, you get more power allowing it to accelerate.

Keep in mind the pedal is not a speed pedal, it's a torque pedal, so holding it in one position could cause the speed to increase up to the speed limiter. How far you hold the pedal will determine how fast it gets there. If the torque requested is less than the amount needed to overcome the losses in the car/drivetrain/wind/etc, then a stasis will be reached and the car will stop going faster.

-Phil

 

[Nubo]

Either some folks are misinterpreting the reported problem, or I am.

The way I read it, the problem is someone commanding, say 40 kW "throttle", and the car nevertheless responding by ramping up to the full 90 kW even though the pedal is still only depressed to the 40 kW position.

 

[Ingineer]

Either some folks are misinterpreting the reported problem, or I am.

The way I read it, the problem is someone commanding, say 40 kW "throttle", and the car nevertheless responding by ramping up to the full 90 kW even though the pedal is still only depressed to the 40 kW position.

What I'm explaining is that this changes over the first few seconds. Initially the VCM inhibits maximum power. Try this: set your head unit to show the energy screen, and floor the pedal. Note that it WILL NOT move to the full-scale (>80kW) range for a few seconds. There is no "40kW" position of the pedal!

If you press the pedal to a given position, the car will begin to apply more torque after this delay ramp expires. This is what I believe people are experiencing, and I am also annoyed by it, but I understand why they did it. As soon as I find a way to remove it, I will offer it to other LEAFers.

-Phil

 

[IBELEAF]

Either some folks are misinterpreting the reported problem, or I am.

The way I read it, the problem is someone commanding, say 40 kW "throttle", and the car nevertheless responding by ramping up to the full 90 kW even though the pedal is still only depressed to the 40 kW position.

What I'm explaining is that this changes over the first few seconds. Initially the VCM inhibits maximum power. Try this: set your head unit to show the energy screen, and floor the pedal. Note that it WILL NOT move to the full-scale (>80kW) range for a few seconds. There is no "40kW" position of the pedal!

If you press the pedal to a given position, the car will begin to apply more torque after this delay ramp expires. This is what I believe people are experiencing, and I am also annoyed by it, but I understand why they did it. As soon as I find a way to remove it, I will offer it to other LEAFers.

-Phil

Exactly my experience, glad to find that it's common.

 

[Nubo]

Either some folks are misinterpreting the reported problem, or I am.

The way I read it, the problem is someone commanding, say 40 kW "throttle", and the car nevertheless responding by ramping up to the full 90 kW even though the pedal is still only depressed to the 40 kW position.

What I'm explaining is that this changes over the first few seconds. Initially the VCM inhibits maximum power. Try this: set your head unit to show the energy screen, and floor the pedal. Note that it WILL NOT move to the full-scale (>80kW) range for a few seconds. There is no "40kW" position of the pedal!

If you press the pedal to a given position, the car will begin to apply more torque after this delay ramp expires. This is what I believe people are experiencing, and I am also annoyed by it, but I understand why they did it. As soon as I find a way to remove it, I will offer it to other LEAFers.

-Phil

Yes, but would one ever expect the power to get to 90kW when they are only holding the pedal halfway down, for example? I understand about the ramp-up but I'd still consider the pedal position as a "target" power level

 

[lpickup]

This is simply the acceleration ramp showing itself. Over the first few seconds it retards power, then when the ramp expires, you get more power allowing it to accelerate.

I can see this happening over a period of maybe a second or two, but from reading adric's report it sounds like it may continue to be applying maximum power indefinitely (although he never did say what the time scale was). If his experience is that it stays at maximum power for more than a couple seconds then I definitely think you are describing two different phenomena.

 

[kballs]

This is perception. My friend was convinced D and ECo had more pedal resistance, it does not it is perception.

There have been others on here who have confirmed my experience. So I'm not imagining this. I think most people just don't fully understand what I'm describing. My wife drove the car without ever realizing the issue until I showed her how to reproduce it. A friend of mine is a Toyota mechanic and I had him drive it and explained to him how to reproduce it. He thought it was odd, but suggested it was done that way on purpose to somehow mimic the behavior of an I.C.E, however admitted that an I.C.E. typically doesn't work that way either.

Just to clarify what (was) happening:

Put it in "D" mode. When accelerating from a stop, press the pedal in enough to start accelerating and get your power meter up to about 4 bubbles, but hold the pedal still. If you keep holding the pedal, the bubbles will start increasing about 1 bubble every half-second until it is outputting max power, even though the throttle was never moved. At this point you could press the throttle all the way down and it will not make any difference because the throttle was already maxed out.

After the update, I can do the same experiment but the outcome is different. I press the pedal down to get 4 bubbles of power and hold it, and the car stays at 4 bubbles of power. Sure, it keeps accelerating because 4 bubbles of power is still enough to keep the car accelerating. But it doesn't increase the throttle and if I decide I need more throttle, I can push the pedal down further and more bubbles will appear and you can feel more power being applied from the motor.

I believe this is "power mode". It kicks in when the accelerator depression is very quick (even if not pressed down all the way). The ramping of power is the same thing that happens in the Leaf if you flatten the accelerator (it hits full power around 25MPH). After 10 or so seconds or if you back off, power mode turns off and it feels like you just lost power. Many ICEs with electronic throttles have the same "power mode" that opens the throttle more than the accelerator angle.

Anyway it can be fun at times and annoying at others, and definitely makes it harder to hypermile. I wonder if they really turned it off or if they just made it less sensitive.

 

[Ingineer]

Nissan makes the pedal pretty sensitive in "D" to make the car feel "peppier". In ECO, it's a little better as for range, but as I keep saying, it's an initial retard function that effectively is pulling the pedal back, and slowly releasing it to your foot. The pedal is a torque pedal not a speed pedal!

It definitely feels like someone is mashing the pedal harder after the first few seconds, that person is YOU! All you have to do to counteract this is let off a bit. It feels a little weird, to be sure, but I don't believe it to be a bug or safety problem.

-Phil