2016 Nissan LEAF Information - 30 kWh SV/SL, 24 kWh S

[DaveinOlyWA]

LEAFs coming off lease are becoming the Rodney Dangerfield of cars. Or perhaps Henny Youngman would be an appropriate spokesman - Take my car - please!

Via ievs:

BREAKING: Nissan Announces Up To $7,000 Credit For Buying Your Leased LEAF

http://insideevs.com/nissan-announces-up-to-7000-credit-for-buying-your-leased-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that the smell of desperation?

smells more like rewarding loyalty. would it play better for you if the deal was "Buy out your 2012 from lease and receive a battery free!!" oh wait! ya, people would complain about that too. they be saying "I don't want a battery, I want the CASH!"

 

[bradbissell]

I wonder how high they will go with the incentive and how much this will hurt the residual value of the next model. They are effectively saying that after 2-3 years the car is worth 1/3 or less of its original price.

The residual of my 2013 SV was exceptionally high (~$20,000 after 2 years). This was so high that I knew I would never buy it out. Even with the current reduction the residual makes buying a used leaf with lower miles a better value. Not sure how this is going to work for Nissan.

 

[kubel]

LEAFs coming off lease are becoming the Rodney Dangerfield of cars. Or perhaps Henny Youngman would be an appropriate spokesman - Take my car - please!

Via ievs:

BREAKING: Nissan Announces Up To $7,000 Credit For Buying Your Leased LEAF

http://insideevs.com/nissan-announces-up-to-7000-credit-for-buying-your-leased-leaf/" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Is that the smell of desperation?

smells more like rewarding loyalty. would it play better for you if the deal was "Buy out your 2012 from lease and receive a battery free!!" oh wait! ya, people would complain about that too. they be saying "I don't want a battery, I want the CASH!"

If it was rewarding loyalty, 2011 and 2012's would receive the full $7000. But in reality, 2011's receive the lowest amount. If you wanted to reward someone, the early adopters with the crappiest batteries deserve it.

The true motivator is inventory. Nissan has a lot more 2012's than 2011's, so 2012's get a higher credit. They have a lot more 2013's than 2012's, so 2013's get a higher credit. So they are lowering the buy out to reduce their inventory, and that's it.

The loyalty reward come in the form of the $1000 credit offered to 2011 and 2012 buyers, but only towards the purchase of a new Nissan. As far as I know, this offer is still available.

 

[tkdbrusco]

Wow. I sat and crunched the numbers on Lease vs. Purchase and came to the conclusion that leasing was going to cost me more, even with crappy resale. These are changing that by a few grand. Should have leased. Now I'll go lease my next EV and wind up having the tables turn again.

 

[epirali]

Wow. I sat and crunched the numbers on Lease vs. Purchase and came to the conclusion that leasing was going to cost me more, even with crappy resale. These are changing that by a few grand. Should have leased. Now I'll go lease my next EV and wind up having the tables turn again.

I am in the same boat, bought the 2013 and lost a bit in resale. But I definitely leased next one, specially with various electric cars coming soon.

 

[Valdemar]

The loyalty reward come in the form of the $1000 credit offered to 2011 and 2012 buyers, but only towards the purchase of a new Nissan. As far as I know, this offer is still available.

I thought it expired end of last year, at least for 2011 owners, no?

 

[DNAinaGoodWay]

Wonder if Carwings is 3G yet.

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Wonder if Carwings is 3G yet.

I would hope they'd go straight to 4G, honestly. Then again, the use of 2G never made sense for a car introduced in 2010...

 

[desiv]

I would hope they'd go straight to 4G, honestly. Then again, the use of 2G never made sense for a car introduced in 2010...

Not sure about that..
I can imagine a conversation something like:
Nissan: We want an inexpensive plan for our cars.
AT&T: Well, we have this inexpensive 2G, but it's going to go away in 7 years and for just a bit more money we can..
Nissan: Sold, 2G it is!!!

;-)

 

[GetOffYourGas]

I would hope they'd go straight to 4G, honestly. Then again, the use of 2G never made sense for a car introduced in 2010...

Not sure about that..
I can imagine a conversation something like:
Nissan: We want an inexpensive plan for our cars.
AT&T: Well, we have this inexpensive 2G, but it's going to go away in 7 years and for just a bit more money we can..
Nissan: Sold, 2G it is!!!

;-)

Sounds about right. But on the other hand, if they have to redesign their radio every 5 years, just to get the latest "oldest available" technology, that's a lot of extra work. I have no insight, just hope. But my hope is that Nissan now sees the trend towards telematics is not going away (it was somewhat experimental in the Leaf 1.0). Maybe they'll invest in the future now? I just would be surprised if the 2016 had either 2G (which is going away December 2016), or something different from the 2017+ Leaf.

 

[desiv]

Sounds about right. But on the other hand, if they have to redesign their radio every 5 years, just to get the latest "oldest available" technology, that's a lot of extra work.

I'm thinking all this would require is a SIM card swapout, not a radio design, so this shouldn't be a major fix for them.
(Maybe some firmware, but not sure that's needed even...)

They just have to work out the contracts and costs/upgrades for existing users..

I have no insight, just hope. But my hope is that Nissan now sees the trend towards telematics is not going away (it was somewhat experimental in the Leaf 1.0). Maybe they'll invest in the future now?

I think they have already found that the data they are collecting has been invaluable for them, which is why they never gt to the "users now have to pay for their own service" stage..
So I'm confident there will be new service for new cars when they finally get around to a deal with a carrier.
I do wonder if they will work out an upgrade for older cars (I would "think" so???), even if it involves owners paying some type of fee themselves..
That's where it gets to the "how much is the data worth to them" for the older cars...
I would think they would realize that in this day and age, and/all data gathering is good for companies.. ;-)
(That's a bit scary when you think about it, but... It is what it is... The amount of data Google and Verizon must have about me is staggering.. ;-) )

desiv

 

[evnow]

(That's a bit scary when you think about it, but... It is what it is... The amount of data Google and Verizon must have about me is staggering.. ;-) )

desiv

And the FBI.

 

[dgpcolorado]

I think they have already found that the data they are collecting has been invaluable for them, which is why they never gt to the "users now have to pay for their own service" stage...

I've often wondered whether that data has been useful and, if so, whether it will continue to be useful. But my guess about the reason that we haven't been charged for Carwings is because Nissan realized, correctly, that few, if any, LEAF owners would pay for it. If it is going away anyway, why bother setting up a payment scheme?

As it happens, I have not been able to connect to my car since May 6th, so it appears that Carwings is now dead on my car. Perhaps AT&T already turned off their 2G towers around here (I have no idea, got rid of my 2G phone in October).

 

[Stanton]

Sounds about right. But on the other hand, if they have to redesign their radio every 5 years, just to get the latest "oldest available" technology, that's a lot of extra work.

I'm thinking all this would require is a SIM card swapout, not a radio design, so this shouldn't be a major fix for them.
(Maybe some firmware, but not sure that's needed even...)

Not that simple.
This has been discussed in (many) threads before, but with a background in the telecom industry, I think one of two scenarios will happen with respect to telematics (CarWings) in the Leaf:
1) Nissan can 'sell' us a new (probably LTE) modem, in which case they 'give' us the service (like they basically do now)
2) Nissan can 'give' us a new modem and 'rent' us the service (much like we do with our cell phones now)

The modems should be fairly inexpensive, but it will require "service" time at the dealer to install/activate.

 

[desiv]

Not that simple.
1) Nissan can 'sell' us a new (probably LTE) modem, in which case they 'give' us the service (like they basically do now)
2) Nissan can 'give' us a new modem and 'rent' us the service (much like we do with our cell phones now)
The modems should be fairly inexpensive, but it will require "service" time at the dealer to install/activate.

That sounds pretty simple to me.. ;-)

desiv

 

[GetOffYourGas]

Not that simple.
1) Nissan can 'sell' us a new (probably LTE) modem, in which case they 'give' us the service (like they basically do now)
2) Nissan can 'give' us a new modem and 'rent' us the service (much like we do with our cell phones now)
The modems should be fairly inexpensive, but it will require "service" time at the dealer to install/activate.

That sounds pretty simple to me.. ;-)

desiv

If the cars were not designed with this upgrade in mind, this could be a time-consuming installation. Sure, the radio might be cheap, but if it takes 4 hours to swap it out, it becomes an expensive upgrade. And for how much benefit? I wouldn't pay $500 to keep carwings - would you?

I'm thinking all this would require is a SIM card swapout, not a radio design, so this shouldn't be a major fix for them.
(Maybe some firmware, but not sure that's needed even...)

Just to be clear, a SIM card would allow the car to access another 2G network. It would NOT upgrade from 2G to something newer. That would require a new radio. Are there other 2G networks around? Who runs them? And for how long?

Edit: Fixed quote brackets

 

[desiv]

I wouldn't pay $500 to keep carwings - would you?

Not sure, but maybe...

desiv

 

[knightmb]

There has been a lot of talk in this topic about using the 30kWh packs in the older generation vehicles. I was curious though, if the packs are the same form factor, just higher capacity cells (but the voltage, layout, etc. all the same), what would it take to put these in an older Leaf? If you could plunk a 30kWh battery pack in my 2013 Leaf, would it even be able to figure out that capacity has greatly increased or is it just statically hard coded to just 24 kWh of power period. Would every old Leaf need a firmware update to flip a "30 kWh" bit in the code or is the computer already smart enough to figure out that this new pack is working at a much higher capacity and adapt to it?

Without having access to the source code for the vehicle, everything is just a guess at the moment. I have decided to try a few test this weekend though just for fun. My first test is to just see how high the efficiency of the vehicle can go and if the computer adapts to it or just ignores it. We all have the love/hate relationship with the GOM for range, but does it even have enough bits of programming to go higher than anything it was designed for at a 24 kWh pack? My first test was simple, elevate the front wheels off the ground, run the car at a steady 25 mph and let the average efficiency reach 20 miles/kW hour (took about 8 miles to reach this). Then shutdown the car, charge it back up and see if the GOM has some insane remaining range like 200 to 300 miles? When I find out and if it is funny/surprising enough, I'll make another topic for it. :mrgreen:

 

[dhanson865]

There has been a lot of talk in this topic about using the 30kWh packs in the older generation vehicles. I was curious though, if the packs are the same form factor, just higher capacity cells (but the voltage, layout, etc. all the same), what would it take to put these in an older Leaf? If you could plunk a 30kWh battery pack in my 2013 Leaf, would it even be able to figure out that capacity has greatly increased or is it just statically hard coded to just 24 kWh of power period. Would every old Leaf need a firmware update to flip a "30 kWh" bit in the code or is the computer already smart enough to figure out that this new pack is working at a much higher capacity and adapt to it?

I'm going to say it'll handle it just fine.

The time to charge estimates will be wrong on the dash, mfd, carwings, phone apps but we've already seen newer leafs with "24 kWh" packs showing a SOH above 100% and GIDs above the old known max. It seems the car doesn't care what the max capacity of the pack is, it'll just relate all the data back to you in terms of how it compares to the old 2011 pack values.

If the voltage gets too high or too low it'd be a problem. Anything else is fair game and you can just charge longer and drive further.

I don't know how the GOM would behave but I don't' think you would care what the GOM would say if you had a working 30 kWh pack.

 

[TomT]

Not only no, but hell no!

I wouldn't pay $500 to keep carwings - would you?