2013 Leaf models takes two hours more to charge than my 2011

[stanley]

I charged my sons S on my Blink charger and it took 2 hours longer to charge from 1 bar to 12 than my 2011. It normally takes my 2011 about 4&3/4 hours for the same charge. His took 7 hours. Is the US built 3.3 slower than my Japanese built 3.3.

 

[ericsf]

I am guessing that for some reason the car's charger believed that it could only draw less than 3kW from the Blink and therefore it took longer to charge than your 2011. Based on what I've read about the Blink I will not bet that the LEAF's at fault.

To be sure that your son's S isn't defective, go to a ChargePoint. It will display the instant power. You should see around 3.3kW.

 

[scottf200]

Looks like there have been some changes in the 2013's that may not be transparent.

LKK had a thread on changes for the 2013.

From the SAE website:
"For the 2013 MY Leaf, Nissan integrated the motor, inverter, and charging unit into a single stack under the hood, freeing up space and reducing mass."
http://www.sae.org/mags/aei/11993" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Also see these threads that would possibly indicate some changes that may not be transparent.

2013 S Not Charging at Some Stations
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12099" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

2013 S (10 days old) won't charge
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?f=30&t=12346" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Of course, kudos to Nissan for working on enhancing the car (better heater, lower loss, etc). Incremental changes are generally safe.

 

[smkettner]

Has the 2011 lost any capacity bars?

 

[Randy]

I am guessing that for some reason the car's charger believed that it could only draw less than 3kW from the Blink and therefore it took longer to charge than your 2011. Based on what I've read about the Blink I will not bet that the LEAF's at fault.

To be sure that your son's S isn't defective, go to a ChargePoint. It will display the instant power. You should see around 3.3kW.

Eric, when I charge my 2011 at a ChargePoint site, it pretty regularly says 3,650 watts...Isn't the 3.3kW what goes to the battery? There's the cooling system and whatever loseeses are present with the process as well. I've been telling people 3.7 kW from the wall and 3.3kW to the battery...

 

[DaveEV]

Has the 2011 lost any capacity bars?

That's one culprit, even if it hasn't lost a bar for sure it's down in capacity from a new LEAF.

It also appears that 1 bar on the 2013 is close to LBW, where on the '11-12 (except for the really early cars with original firnware). So if you want to make an accurate comparison, discharge both to LBW and then measure the actual energy along with timing it.

It would be trivial to do this with a Blink, otherwise you need some other sort of energy monitor.

 

[LEAFfan]

I am guessing that for some reason the car's charger believed that it could only draw less than 3kW from the Blink and therefore it took longer to charge than your 2011. Based on what I've read about the Blink I will not bet that the LEAF's at fault.

To be sure that your son's S isn't defective, go to a ChargePoint. It will display the instant power. You should see around 3.3kW.

Eric, when I charge my 2011 at a ChargePoint site, it pretty regularly says 3,650 watts...Isn't the 3.3kW what goes to the battery? There's the cooling system and whatever loseeses are present with the process as well. I've been telling people 3.7 kW from the wall and 3.3kW to the battery...

My 3.3 charger always used 3.8kW h from the wall.

 

[stanley]

smkettner, I have all 12 bars.Living in sunny and temperate San Diego helps my battery maintain its capacity. I have over 24,000 miles on my Leaf. I looked at data I have kept going back to 2011 and my Leaf consistently takes about 4 and 3/4 hours to charge from one bar to 12 bars. It has not changed.

 

[KillaWhat]

My '12 takes 4:50 to charge from 1 bar, using about 17.7 kw to the car.
(But 5:17 for 19.2kw to the car is more what I do now)

What I am seeing with my meter is that on my car 1 bar is still about 50 GID remaining (out of about 278 fully charged) which according to the meter is about 20% pack remaining.

Perhaps the MY '13 Leaf's GOM isn't as full of Cr&p, and 1 bar is really 1 bar?

 

[planet4ever]

smkettner, I have all 12 bars.Living in sunny and temperate San Diego helps my battery maintain its capacity. I have over 24,000 miles on my Leaf. I looked at data I have kept going back to 2011 and my Leaf consistently takes about 4 and 3/4 hours to charge from one bar to 12 bars. It has not changed.

Your 4 3/4 hour number is about what would be expected from 1 full bar to 12 full bars in a 2011/2012 because it drops from 2 bars to 1 at about 26% charge. 4.75 hrs * 3.3 kW = 15.7 kWh assuming there is no taper. 15.7 / 0.74 = 21 kWh total usable capacity.

But Tony Williams recently saw a 2013 with one bar still showing at 8% charge according to the new SOC meter built into the dash. So you might have been giving your son's S a 92% or even higher charge. (All these numbers are believed to be based on usable capacity, not total capacity.) 6.75 hrs * 3.3 kW = 22.3 kW, and if that is 95%, then 22.3 / 0.95 = 23.45 kWh total usable capacity.

This seems pretty hard to swallow, but I can think of three other factors, in addition to the assumption I made above that the last bar was about to disappear.

1. It may be that Nissan has decided that it really can charge more fully or discharge more deeply. This would provide more range, and explain how the EPA numbers could show a slight range increase even though the calculation is apparently more conservative (because it combines 80% and 100% ranges).
2. Nissan may have decided that even L2 charging needs to be tapered much more dramatically than before to protect the battery when it is nearly full.
3. It seems rather curious that Nissan lists the slower charger as 3.6 kW with 3.3 kW output when we know that old charger was 3.8 kW with 3.3 kW output. What did they do to make the new charger that much more efficient? Perhaps they are fudging the output a bit so they don't have to admit that the new bottom end charger can't quite work as fast as the old one. If it might peak at 3.3 kW but run most of the time at, say, 3.1 kW, then your 6.75 hours would have put in only 20.9 kWh, and the total usable capacity might have been as low as 22 kWh.

Of course it could also be a combination of these.

Ray

 

[DaveEV]

To be sure that your son's S isn't defective, go to a ChargePoint. It will display the instant power. You should see around 3.3kW.

Eric, when I charge my 2011 at a ChargePoint site, it pretty regularly says 3,650 watts...

My 3.3 charger always used 3.8kW h from the wall.

3.84 kW from the wall on 240V and 3.65 kW from the wall on 208V is right. The Chargepoint is probably 208V, not 240V. Phil has said the that the LEAF will pull a bit more than 16A on 208V = 3650W / 208V = 17.5A.