2013 LEAF, Can it charge at 7.2k rates?

[dgpcolorado]

I charge my 2013 Leaf daily at work with a Clipper Creek CS-40 EVSE and routinely charge much faster than what the dashboard tells me it will take. I get 30% charge for every hour plugged in, so I usually charge for 2 hours and never need to go over 3. Doing the math, it looks like I am getting 7.2kW (7.2/24 = 30%)

Perhaps it's worth noting that there is only about 22 kWh usable in a new battery and if you are going by the dash %SOC meter, it reflects only usable charge. Add to that: as the battery degrades, and the actual capacity declines, your battery will charge more quickly. And it is likely that your year old 2013 LEAF has some capacity loss by now; if you live in a hot climate it could be considerable.

So, "30%" isn't remotely 7.2 kWh nor does it suggest that you are getting 7.2 kW charging.

 

[jlatl]

Maybe I missed this reply, but my information is that the charger is a current limited device. My experience with 208 vs. 240 is that the wattage rate of charging seems to follow that idea.

For example, if I can get 6.6kW @ 240 (my house does not support that) when I charge at work with 208 it is only about 5.8kW. For both voltages it comes to about 27.5 amps.

Anyone else have experience with this?

 

[TonyWilliams]

Maybe I missed this reply, but my information is that the charger is a current limited device. My experience with 208 vs. 240 is that the wattage rate of charging seems to follow that idea.

For example, if I can get 6.6kW @ 240 (my house does not support that) when I charge at work with 208 it is only about 5.8kW. For both voltages it comes to about 27.5 amps.

Anyone else have experience with this?

It's my belief (however not measured) that the "6.6kW" charger on the 2013 and newer LEAF will pull 30 amps at 200 volts (Japan standard voltage spec). Above that voltage, it is limited to 27.5 amps.

The "3.3kW" charger already does this with 18 amps at 200 volts and 16 amps above that voltage.

 

[cwerdna]

Maybe I missed this reply, but my information is that the charger is a current limited device. My experience with 208 vs. 240 is that the wattage rate of charging seems to follow that idea.

For example, if I can get 6.6kW @ 240 (my house does not support that) when I charge at work with 208 it is only about 5.8kW. For both voltages it comes to about 27.5 amps.

Anyone else have experience with this?

See http://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?p=338038#p338038" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false; and the PDF there.

My '13 Leaf SV typically pulls ~5.7 to 6.0 kW on my work's 208 volt Chargepoint EVSEs.

 

[Edy]

as the battery gets old, faster the charging

 

[mctom987]

I see "Businesses use 208V" fairly often, and while that may be the service voltage, that's rarely what's hooked up.

Generally, 208V is provided in a 3-phase setup. Since most consumer and end-of-circuit equipment does not run on 3-phase supply, it must be changed. This 3-phase power is usually converted into 120V and 240V lines.

Commercial L2 chargers don't necessarily operate on 208V (although they very well could be), and are probably operating on 240V. Most people see about 5.8kW when charging on these L2 chargers. This isn't because 28A 208V is 5.8kW, it's because a 30-A circuit is limited to 80% continuous draw. This means 24A max power. 24A @ 240V = 5.76kW.

The J1772 connector on the Leaf is rated for 27.5A continuous. This is between 9 and 10 gauge wire. 27.5A @ 240V = 6600W, or, 6.6kW the Leaf is rated for. In order to supply this, you need at least a 40A circuit (as 35A #9 wires and equipment are quite rare), and a similarly rated 40A EVSE.

6.6kW charging rates are still possible on 208V, but this would require 32A supply on a 40A circuit, which the Leaf's charger and J1772 are not designed to handle. You would be limited to 5720W, or 5.72kW. This is very close to the 240V rate of 5.76kW. Because of this, it's likely impossible to guess/know the rating of the EVSE or voltage by the charging times or rates alone.

In the end, ~5.8kW is probably the fastest rates you will see on most commercial installations, unless there is a known high-power (70A, for example) EVSE installed.

 

[Volt3939]

... I made stops to charge along the way at mostly Nissan dealers with the Aerovironment Nissan branded Level 2 stations. I was trying to understand how my LEAF would calculate 4hr charge time to full at 6.6k (what the dashboard display stated) and the actual time to charge was more like 2hr 40min when connected to the Nissan Dealers charge station.

The 2 stations I connected to on this trip that weren't Nissan units were a GE WattStation in Bowling Green Ohio. That station finished in exactly the time stated on my LEAF's dashboard at the 6.6k rate. And I connected to a ChargePoint station with the same result...

Mike R

Funny, I get the same behavior in my Volt. My home EVSE is the Aerovironment Nissan branded Level 2, (on 240-241, whatever it takes ) and it consistently finishes before the estimated ending time. I use a ChargePoint, and the estimate is dead on...

 

[jlatl]

I see "Businesses use 208V" fairly often, and while that may be the service voltage, that's rarely what's hooked up.

Generally, 208V is provided in a 3-phase setup. Since most consumer and end-of-circuit equipment does not run on 3-phase supply, it must be changed. This 3-phase power is usually converted into 120V and 240V lines.

Commercial L2 chargers don't necessarily operate on 208V (although they very well could be), and are probably operating on 240V. Most people see about 5.8kW when charging on these L2 chargers. This isn't because 28A 208V is 5.8kW, it's because a 30-A circuit is limited to 80% continuous draw. This means 24A max power. 24A @ 240V = 5.76kW.

The J1772 connector on the Leaf is rated for 27.5A continuous. This is between 9 and 10 gauge wire. 27.5A @ 240V = 6600W, or, 6.6kW the Leaf is rated for. In order to supply this, you need at least a 40A circuit (as 35A #9 wires and equipment are quite rare), and a similarly rated 40A EVSE.

6.6kW charging rates are still possible on 208V, but this would require 32A supply on a 40A circuit, which the Leaf's charger and J1772 are not designed to handle. You would be limited to 5720W, or 5.72kW. This is very close to the 240V rate of 5.76kW. Because of this, it's likely impossible to guess/know the rating of the EVSE or voltage by the charging times or rates alone.

In the end, ~5.8kW is probably the fastest rates you will see on most commercial installations, unless there is a known high-power (70A, for example) EVSE installed.

The information that the J1772 is rate for 27.5A continuous is interesting and does agree with what I have observed but I cannot find that specification anywhere. I have seen figures given for the J1772 that say 30A, another put is at 32A, but I have not seen anyone put it at 27.5A. Would appreciate a link to where you saw 27.5 as the continuous current limit.

This does support the statement that charge power is current limited. With a home installation (Level 2 - single-phase 240v) and 27.5A that would give you 6.6kW.

With a business feed using 3 phase power you only get 208v and at 27.5A that comes to 5.72kW, which is about what I see when I charge at work.

(3 phase is used where a lot of power is distributed, like commercial buildings. Take a look at the bigger power transmission towers/lines and you will see there are 3 sets of wires. Typically at commercial locations they do not use 240v. Equipment they use is designed for this voltage, motors will run on 3-phase 208v, etc. In fact, to get 240 they would need to put in transformers or more commonly use something called a buck-boost transformer).

 

[ElectricEddy]

I see "Businesses use 208V" fairly often, and while that may be the service voltage, that's rarely what's hooked up.

Generally, 208V is provided in a 3-phase setup. Since most consumer and end-of-circuit equipment does not run on 3-phase supply, it must be changed. This 3-phase power is usually converted into 120V and 240V lines.

Commercial L2 chargers don't necessarily operate on 208V (although they very well could be), and are probably operating on 240V. Most people see about 5.8kW when charging on these L2 chargers. This isn't because 28A 208V is 5.8kW, it's because a 30-A circuit is limited to 80% continuous draw. This means 24A max power. 24A @ 240V = 5.76kW.

The J1772 connector on the Leaf is rated for 27.5A continuous. This is between 9 and 10 gauge wire. 27.5A @ 240V = 6600W, or, 6.6kW the Leaf is rated for. In order to supply this, you need at least a 40A circuit (as 35A #9 wires and equipment are quite rare), and a similarly rated 40A EVSE.

6.6kW charging rates are still possible on 208V, but this would require 32A supply on a 40A circuit, which the Leaf's charger and J1772 are not designed to handle. You would be limited to 5720W, or 5.72kW. This is very close to the 240V rate of 5.76kW. Because of this, it's likely impossible to guess/know the rating of the EVSE or voltage by the charging times or rates alone.
In the end, ~5.8kW is probably the fastest rates you will see on most commercial installations, unless there is a known high-power (70A, for example) EVSE installed.

The information that the J1772 is rate for 27.5A continuous is interesting and does agree with what I have observed but I cannot find that specification anywhere. I have seen figures given for the J1772 that say 30A, another put is at 32A, but I have not seen anyone put it at 27.5A. Would appreciate a link to where you saw 27.5 as the continuous current limit.

This does support the statement that charge power is current limited. With a home installation (Level 2 - single-phase 240v) and 27.5A that would give you 6.6kW.

With a business feed using 3 phase power you only get 208v and at 27.5A that comes to 5.72kW, which is about what I see when I charge at work.

(3 phase is used where a lot of power is distributed, like commercial buildings. Take a look at the bigger power transmission towers/lines and you will see there are 3 sets of wires. I Typically at commercial locations they do not use 240v. Equipment they use is designed for this voltage, motors will run on 3-phase 208v, etc. In fact, to get 240 they would need to put in transformers or more commonly use something called a buck-boost transformer).

I consistently average 5.75KWH on L2 charge whether it is my own Cutler Hammer measured @238.5V 24A single phase, or from a public EVSE fed 208V.

 

[mctom987]

The information that the J1772 is rate for 27.5A continuous is interesting and does agree with what I have observed but I cannot find that specification anywhere. I have seen figures given for the J1772 that say 30A, another put is at 32A, but I have not seen anyone put it at 27.5A. Would appreciate a link to where you saw 27.5 as the continuous current limit.

J1772 allows for up to 80A rates. However, the equipment and connector on the Leaf (not the cable you plug into the Leaf) are not rated for anything near that. The Leaf (With the 6.6kW charger) can charge from 100-240V AC. The 27.5A is calculated by dividing the max power (6600W) by supply voltage (240V). From Ohm's Law, this tells us 6.6kW at 240V would be 27.5A.

 

[jlatl]

I see "Businesses use 208V" fairly often, and while that may be the service voltage, that's rarely what's hooked up.

Generally, 208V is provided in a 3-phase setup. Since most consumer and end-of-circuit equipment does not run on 3-phase supply, it must be changed. This 3-phase power is usually converted into 120V and 240V lines.

Commercial L2 chargers don't necessarily operate on 208V (although they very well could be), and are probably operating on 240V. Most people see about 5.8kW when charging on these L2 chargers. This isn't because 28A 208V is 5.8kW, it's because a 30-A circuit is limited to 80% continuous draw. This means 24A max power. 24A @ 240V = 5.76kW.

....

Just to be clear, commercial locations with 3-phase 208v very rarely convert to 240v. A single phase of 3-phase (split-phase) will provide 208v with a center tap which will give you 120v for wall plugs, etc. (for those of you wondering how 208v divided by 2 gives 120 it is because the voltages on the 2 wires for 208v are not 180 degrees out of phase as they are on single phase power)

For devices that require higher voltages (to reduce current with higher power loads) they just buy devices that are built for 208v.