2012 Leaf won't start, need to pull DC Converter to test, potential repairs in the $6,000+ range - HELP!

[Lothsahn]

I agreed with leftiebiker. The car is a 2012 car. It is FAR out of warrantee, and on the second or third owner.

The battery is warrantied for 8 years, 100k miles. This car has NOT exceeded that. Non-capacity related battery failures are warrantied (cell failure or BMS failure). Given age and mileage, any other failure in the EV system or powertrain is not warrantied.

My comment is to krichard27, who said that they were told:

Once diagnosed, if the DC converter is bad, we're told it's likely better to replace the entire battery.

This has caused them to panic, as they possibly have a $6k repair (actually $8k+) if the DC converter is bad. This is not true--they only need to replace the broken part(s). If the part is the battery, it's covered by warranty.

From: http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images/f/fe/2012-leaf-warranty-booklet.pdf

LITHIUM–ION BATTERY COVERAGE
The Lithium-Ion coverage period is 96 months or100,000 miles, whichever comes first. This warranty covers any repairs needed to correct defects in materials or workmanship subject to the exclusions listed under the heading WHATISNOTCOVERED. This warranty period is 96 months or100,000 miles, whichever comes first.

There are exclusions:

• *This warranty does not cover damage or failures resulting from or caused by:
  *Exposing a vehicle to ambient temperatures above120F (49C) for over 24 hours.
  *Storing a vehicle in temperatures below -13F (-25C)for over seven days.
  *Leaving your vehicle for over 14 days where the lithium-ion battery reaches a zero or near zero state of charge.
  *Physically damaging the lithium-ion battery or intentionally attempting to reduce the life of the lithium-ion battery.
  *Exposing the lithium-ion battery to contact with a direct flame.
  *Charging the lithium-ion battery full on a daily basis despite the lithium-ion battery keeping a high state of charge level (98-100%).
  *Immersing any portion of the lithium-ion battery in water or fluids.
  *Opening the lithium-ion battery enclosure or having it serviced by someone other than a Nissan LEAF certified technician.
  *Neglecting to follow correct charging procedures.
  *Use of incompatible charging devices.
  *Consequential damage caused by the failure to re-pair an existing problem.
  *Damage caused by failing to complete the annual EV battery usage report

 

[powersurge]

I was under the impression that they did not determine that only the battery was bad.... That would be easy to diagnose because Nissan has a lot of experience diagnosing a bad battery.

If they just replace the battery "and see", the battery replacement may not necessarily fix the problem.

 

[LeftieBiker]

At this point, a definite diagnosis is an absolute necessity. The original poster needs to post the error codes here.

 

[krichard27]

We have a meeting at the dealership tomorrow to get the full list of codes and what they have ruled out. They said they have validated the new 12V battery is charged and codes cleared; and the break pedal and related circuits have been ruled out. I am anxious for more details as well. Hope to learn more in person tomorrow and will share all findings when available. Thanks again all for your input. More to come.

 

[krichard27]

List of info from dealer:
DTC C1155. BR fluid level low. Past
DTC C118C. EV/HEV system. Crnt.
DTC P311C. High Voltage System. 0
DTC P3176. Inverter Condenser. 0
DTC C1A6E. EV/HEV system. CRNT.
DTC C1A70. Brake control system. CRNT.
DTC C10E7. Over heat. Past.
DTC B2820. QUICK CHARGER. Past.
DTC B29A0. N/CHG PORT ENGAGEMENT ERROR. Past.

Dealership stated: "multitude of high voltage system checks. These checks are lengthy and hazardous. Estimated time to perform a proper diagnosis is approximately 5-6 hrs. Diagnosed as per service manual for code P311c through step 8 removal of the dc/DC junction box. Customer declined further diagnosis."

The LeafSpy i ordered arrived tonight. I can run the codes myself. Any other diagnostics I can perform based on the info provided?

Thanks in advance for any advice offered.

 

[GerryAZ]

Here are my troubleshooting recommendations (based upon my experience with 2011 and 2015):
1. Measure resting voltage of 12-volt battery.
2. Charge or replace 12-volt battery if resting voltage is not at least 12.4 volts.
3. Attempt to turn on car and then measure 12-volt battery voltage while car is on (dash displays on).
4. Replace 12-volt battery, connect external 12-volt charger, or find some other way to supply more voltage if voltage measured above is less than about 12.2 (higher is better).
5. Read and record ALL DTCs in ALL modules with Leaf Spy Pro (LSP).
6. Clear all DTCs in all modules with LSP.
7. Read and record all remaining DTCs in all modules with LSP.
8. Turn car off.
9. Disconnect negative 12-volt battery terminal (and external charger, if used) for at least 2 minutes.
10. Connect 12-volt battery (and external charger, if needed).
11. Read and record all DTCs in all modules with LSP.
12. Clear all DTCs in all modules with LSP.
13. Read and record all remaining DTCs in all modules with LSP.
14. Repeat steps 8 through 13 at least two more times if ALL DTCs are not successfully cleared from ALL modules after step 12 the first time.
15. Try starting and driving car after clearing all DTCs.

I had situations with both 2011 and 2015 that required disconnecting/reconnecting the 12-volt battery twice along with clearing DTCs multiple times to get everything cleared. As a reminder, LSP will only clear DTCs from one module at a time so you need to read and clear DTCs numerous times to step through all of the modules.

 

[MAR156]

DTC P311C. High Voltage System. 0
DTC P3176. Inverter Condenser. 0

P3176
INVERTER CONDENSER
Immediately before READY or the start of charge, pre-charging
cannot be performed for 5 seconds or more.
• Harness or connectors
• Li-ion battery J/B
• LBC
• DC/DC-J/B
• Traction motor inverter
• VCM

P311C
HIGH VOLTAGE SYSTEM
(High voltage system malfunction)
Remains all of following condition for 0.2 seconds.
• Li-ion battery current: 5.5 A or more
• Input voltage to traction motor inverter: 24 V or less
• Pre-charge impossible
• High voltage circuit
• Li-ion battery J/B
Remains all of following condition for 0.5 seconds.
• Li-ion battery current: less than 5.5 A
• Input voltage to traction motor inverter: 24 V or less
• Pre-charge impossible
Remains all of following condition for 0.5 seconds.
• Difference between Li-ion battery voltage and input voltage
to traction motor inverter 100 V or more.
• Pre-charge impossible

But this is due to the cause of either a short circuit in the HV circuit or a component failure AC compressor, inverter, charge unit, DC-DC, 33Ohm resistor ....

 

[Lothsahn]

Dealership stated: "multitude of high voltage system checks. These checks are lengthy and hazardous. Estimated time to perform a proper diagnosis is approximately 5-6 hrs. Diagnosed as per service manual for code P311c through step 8 removal of the dc/DC junction box. Customer declined further diagnosis."

Okay, given these details, I have good news. The dealership is correct and making good recommendations to you. What is also clear is that your failure may likely be covered by warranty. The dealer is also correctly diagnosing P311C (they appear to be competent).

Assuming they've followed the steps correctly through step 8, that means they've checked:
The 12V battery for full voltage.
Your AC compressor for a short circuit
The PTC heating element
The traction motor inverter

Assuming they did the diagnosis correctly, all of these are good.

The remaining items in the checklist are to check the HV harness (possible short circuit between the HV harness terminals) or a shorted or failed Battery heater. As you have a 2012, you do have a battery heater, so it is a possible failure.

Basically, you're down to 3 possibilities:
1) There is a short in the HV cable (the cable that goes from the battery to the inverter). - Not a warranty item
2) There is a problem with the battery heater - Warranty item
3) The Battery Junction box has failed (electrical junction box inside the battery itself). This may have also shorted the service fuse. - Warranty item

If the Service plug fuse has shorted, it indicates a problem with the junction box in the battery. If you have HV safety gloves, you can pull this service disconnect yourself and check to see if the fuse is blown: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yOVSldvhuco

I would call the dealership and educate them on the 8 year, 100k mile battery warranty. Get them to agree to replace the pack, if defective, under warranty. Then arrange to finish diagnostics for the HV cable. If the HV cable is shorted, you're out all of the money you spent, but you'll have a working car. If the HV cable has not failed, the problem is the battery, and I would politely inform them that you're entitled to a fully covered repair--ideally a full battery replacement.

In short, if you play your cards right, you have a chance at getting a free new battery pack out of all of this (possibly minus the diagnostic fees).

The reason the dealership warned you about the $6,000 repair (in your first post) is they realized the battery may have failed. It appears they did not realize that your car is still under warranty in that case.

Link to warranty information:
http://www.mynissanleaf.com/wiki/images/f/fe/2012-leaf-warranty-booklet.pdf

Feel free to PM me if you have further questions. I would be more than happy to help you understand where you sit. In my opinion, this is very likely a warranty repair claim.