2012 BYD e6 Electric Crossover, $35k, 200-Mile Range? huh?

[SteveInSeattle]

In response to those who tout the great technological capabilities of the Chinese, certainly there is truth to their capability to build good products (as I type this on my Chinese iMac). Still, there is general consensus that the Chinese are a decade behind in auto technologies, much as Hyundai was as it came to the US market. It took Hyundai 25 years to catch up with Toyota in quality--and just now they are ready to market a Lexus competitor in the Equus. With the Chinese government's help, their companies will probably accomplish the same in much less time. But I stand by my assertion that the gen 1 BYD electrics can't be as reliable as Nissan's Leaf. Nissan has been experimenting with electric cars for almost 70 years, with their first Lithium battery car, the Prairie EV produced in 1992! All of the best engineers in China can't leap-frog a company with practical experience that quickly. Plus the BYD range comes with no magic, just more, and heavier batteries, batteries that are heavier than the chemistry used by Nissan.

The future of alternative energy cars, and of Chinese cars, and BYD are all very bright, but we won't see significant market penetration for ten to fifteen years. As the numbers grow the subsidies will be gone and contrary to some predictions Lithium batteries are not going to drop significantly in price-- the stuff is plentiful but in places that are difficult to mine.

 

[DaveinOlyWA]

the lag in technology was pretty common in past years, but i think that the instant access to information will shorten that to a few years, not decades.

to be honest with ya, i am not sure that even applies today. its really all software and as we all know THAT is always a work in progress and we have not cornered to market on software brilliance

 

[Herm]

But I stand by my assertion that the gen 1 BYD electrics can't be as reliable as Nissan's Leaf. Nissan has been experimenting with electric cars for almost 70 years, with their first Lithium battery car, the Prairie EV produced in 1992! All of the best engineers in China can't leap-frog a company with practical experience that quickly. Plus the BYD range comes with no magic, just more, and heavier batteries, batteries that are heavier than the chemistry used by Nissan.

Are the ice cars the BYD builds as reliable as Nissan's?.. I dont know, they are much lower cost.

The electric portion in BEVs is the trivial part of the design, for gods sake!, hobbyist have been designing and building BEVs for decades.. the hard part is the ergonomics, efficient manufacturing, nav systems, air bags etc and the other little million parts that go into cars.. thats the hard part stuff. Batteries?, BYD is well positioned to dominate this market.. and their choice of chemistry is probably superior to what both GM and Nissan are using.

 

[evnow]

It is a common problem all new brand names face - esp. for something as important (in terms of reliability, safet & cost) as cars. You need some people initially who would buy them - treate them well, keep building good cars and hope it catches on. It would be easier if they bought an established brand here and sell it through that (like Lenovo did with ThinkPad). For eg. they could have bought Think!.

 

[EVDRIVER]

No matter how great it may be the interior and exterior I have seen so far is as bad and boring as it gets. Perhaps they should fire a few engineers and hire some Italian designers. I think they would sell FAR more EVs that way even with half the range.

Roj - how many Italian designers does it take to make a lightweight EV with a 200 mile range?

Frankly - the Think City is more than fine for local transportation. It's the 'design' twaddle that leads to EV-Bloat.

It's my favorite city EV, I used to own one.

 

[AndyH]

It's my favorite city EV, I used to own one.

It reminds me of the 'simplicity' of the Austin 1100 I had when I lived in England in the 1980s. Basic, simple, functional, reliable, rattles optional but not unexpected. (And darkness by Lucas!)

 

[AndyH]

http://www.plugincars.com/exclusive...kthrough-us-pricing-chinese-electric-car.html

Electric:

Michael Austin, the Chicago-based BYD vice president of marketing and public relations...emphasized that testing in the U.S. is also a critical step for BYD. After the all-electric e6 was shown last year, BYD learned that American consumers were disappointed with lack of legroom in the back seat—due to how the batteries were packaged. Since that time, Austin said, the entire layout was redesigned to remove the four inches of raised floor in the backseat compartment. “It only takes six months for complete retooling in China,” Austin said.

He also said that the Chinese version of the e6 uses a 75 kW electric motor, but the U.S. consumers want more acceleration and therefore the U.S. version of the e6 will have 160 kW motor. The model with the more powerful motor—capable of delivering zero-to-60 times in less than 8 seconds—will be called the e6 S (for Sport).

Unique dual-mode EV/hybrid

Austin told me that by 2012, BYD will have at least five showrooms open in the U.S., and as many as 20. He pointed to the 10 units of the F3DM that went into fleet testing in December at the Housing Authority of the City of Los Angeles as proof that the company will deliver on its promises. “All necessary crash testing will be completed in 2011,” Austin said. He said the “biggest trouble” facing BYD had to do with the Environmental Protection Agency not being able to determine the best way to measure range and emissions in the F3DM...Because...the F3DM is not a plug-in series hybrid or extended-range electric car, but a car with two independent systems—one electric and the other a blended gas-electric hybrid. The driver can manually switch between the two systems.

 

[detlefo]

Interesting NY Times article on the BYD.


http://nyti.ms/i9YQzR

 

[Boomer23]

The car’s personality shifts from a quick, nimble and silent E.V. to a revving demon. The steering wheel vibrates. The dashboard hums. You feel the vibration in your molars.

Gee, sounds lovely.

 

[Herm]

They run the ice hard because its more efficient that way.. GM increased the size of the ICE (and made it a 4 cyclinder) in the Volt so they would not have this issue, giving up MPG in the process.. noise and vibration are always going to be noticeable when you get used to the quietness of an electric. A small rotary engine would have an advantage in such an application.

This is what happens when engineers run a company..

 

[Electric4Me]

The car’s personality shifts from a quick, nimble and silent E.V. to a revving demon. The steering wheel vibrates. The dashboard hums. You feel the vibration in your molars.

Gee, sounds lovely.

That actually sounds perfect! Perfect for the negative reinforcement consumers need to stay within their electric range. I just read a quote from a Volt owner that stated that on a long drive he and his passenger were waiting for the ICE to start up but got caught up in conversation and missed it....

This is what happens when engineers run a company..

No wonder I like it! :lol:

 

[turbo2ltr]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g5SRyG6UR2A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D827IxEJVS4

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DZWy_fASSiQ

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LmpDM8wVrUQ

Um, no thanks.

Thought it seems they might be getting a little better..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FnXT1agrus4

 

[TomT]

BYD has an excellent track record as a very accomplished battery producer so they clearly have the technology in house to do this. They also have a lot of backing, financial and otherwise, from outside sources.

So, would I buy one? If it delivers on the promise and at the price, hell yes!

Huh? How are they doing that price? Are they subsidized by the Chinese government and losing 20k per car? My bet is yes.
I'd never buy a car from China. Sorry. Chinese made goods have a bad taste to them with all of the cheap toys and crap we have going on here.
Maybe it's a good car - who knows - but it has a LOT ... scratch that.. an almost INSURMOUNTABLE issue to overcome in consumer's minds.

 

[palmermd]

Not sure exactly how, but your links lead me here. Fantastic...I want a Dodge Powerwagon motorhome.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e8GdadQzMeo&feature=relmfu

 

[redLEAF]

More BYD news ...


http://www.glendalenewspress.com/news/tn-gnp-0315-byd,0,3970865.story

 

[SteveInSeattle]

various news sources say that the BYD e6 just went on sale to individual consumers in China. Also, they have over a million cumulative miles of use from their taxi fleet. The most interesting detail in the articles is that the car is available with 2 motors for more power, both front and rear, and thus has all-wheel-drive. That feature would be attractive.

I have said that I thought that it would take quite awhile for Chinese car makers to catch up with the fit and finish and quality of other car makers-- but China is the largest car market in the world and BYD will certainly have a chance to improve their product as they sell them in China.

 

[KeiJidosha]

While charging at the LA Convention Center waiting for the LA Auto Show to open I walked down to BYD's North American headquarters building to see if there was any progress. I had gone there when they announced it in March and it was just abandon office space for sale/lease. Now it’s been renovated and looks move in ready, including signs and furniture. Still awaiting cars and employees.

 

[evnow]

I have said that I thought that it would take quite awhile for Chinese car makers to catch up with the fit and finish and quality of other car makers-- but China is the largest car market in the world and BYD will certainly have a chance to improve their product as they sell them in China.

I don't know about that. You need demanding domestic customers to improve quality - not highly price sensitive customers like you have in China (and India). Very difficult to improve quality catering to those customers - what you do learn is how to be a low cost producer cutting corners.

 

[SanDust]

I don't know about that. You need demanding domestic customers to improve quality - not highly price sensitive customers like you have in China (and India). Very difficult to improve quality catering to those customers - what you do learn is how to be a low cost producer cutting corners.

This is definitely not true in India. Unlike their counterparts in most of the world, Indian consumers would rather do without a product than buy an inferior one. A good example of this would be the Nano. Should have been a hit because it had only a slightly higher price point than a Tuk Tuk. But Indian consumers thought of it as a car, not a Tuk Tuk, and decided that its quality was too low. Tata is trying to address the quality problem by introducing more options and upgrading the components, but sales remain very disappointing.

You have to build a good quality vehicle to be successful in India.

 

[EdmondLeaf]

Any update?