10-50 to L6-30

[johnrhansen]

you can typically undersize the neutral one size. #10 would work. I'm not sure about running it outside the cable. Cables that normally conduct current need to be in the cable or in conduit. All I was talking about before was simply connecting the ground to the neutral at the outlet. all you would need is a 4 inch piece of wire. It's a whole lot better than leaving it open.. but the best thing to do obviously is to either run a neutral wire per code or replace the receptacle and it's plug with a non neutral type like a 6-50 or a 10-50.

 

[GlennD]

Yes, I realize the neutral can be downsized but since I ran 3/4 inch flex there was room for #8. Why not match all of the conductors? the added cost is minimal.

I just do not like that to buy wire by the foot you are stuck with home improvement stores. Sure I could buy rolls from Graybar or Grainger.

 

[johnrhansen]

It's just sometimes it's easier to find #10 then #8 in the smaller stores

 

[kubel]

Sorry for abandoning this thread, between work and rehabbing this house, I've been busy.

The 10-50 to L6-30 adapter was created and works perfectly. Only problem now is the fuses are overheating on my OpenEVSE. I think I need a better fuse setup. The ones I have are wimpy panel-mount type and they are burning to the touch after about an hour of charging at 16A.

kubel: Thinking about your original post some more it occurs to me:
1) Besides the adapter (most(all?) EVSE instructions say "Don't use"),

Mine doesn't say that (OpenEVSE).

2) you probably need an extension cord (most(all?) EVSE instructions say "Don't use"), and

No extension cord is being used, I built mine with sufficient length. If I needed one, however, I do have a 10GA cordset repurposed from a datacenter PDU with twistlocks on both sides

3) I think implied safe use strongly suggests changing the circuit breaker for your 10-50 receptacle circuit from 50a to 30a for your intended EVSE use, but since the outlet may be used in the future with a stove requiring a 50a breaker, the situation seems very problematic. A better solution to me seems to change the 10-50 receptacle to a 6-30 receptacle so no adapter is needed, change the breaker from 50a to 30a, and ensure that the neutral wire goes directly back to the main breaker ground/neutral buses (if not (i.e. one or more sub-panels in between) or you're not sure, maybe using a competent electrician to help you out would be wisest).

I found out that the breaker is actually 40A. I have no clue how they were using it with a 50A stove.

In the end, I think I'm going to either rebuild my OpenEVSE in a more watertight case, or get a Bosch unit and mount it on the back of the house.

 

[wwhitney]

I agree a neutral wire would be better but I tried to buy 10 feet of white #8 at home depot. Needless to say after waiting for help over a half hour it did not happen.

If you have #8 black, it would be a smaller sin to relabel it with white tape (which you are not supposed to do in sizes #6 and smaller, other than in cable assemblies), than to have a 14-50 receptacle with an open neutral. Of course, if you don't have any #8 copper wire, then you can just get it in white.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

you can typically undersize the neutral one size.

This is a rule of thumb that may generally work for services and large feeders, but you should really do a load calculation to justify it. For a 14-50 receptacle where you are only connecting known loads, then you can determine the maximum neutral current and size it accordingly (but never smaller than the EGC). If you want a general purpose 14-50, you should install a full size neutral because you don't know what will be connected.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[wwhitney]

I found out that the breaker is actually 40A. I have no clue how they were using it with a 50A stove.

There are no 40A receptacles, so 50A receptacles are used on 40A circuits. Do electric stove typically require 40A or 50A circuits?

Cheers, Wayne

 

[davewill]

... I found out that the breaker is actually 40A. I have no clue how they were using it with a 50A stove. ...

Perhaps they simply never ran all the burners and the oven all on high? The stove rating would be for worst case, no?

 

[GlennD]

I have found that you have to use genuine Littlefuse or Bussman fuses. I normally use Littlefuse 3AB 30A fuses and they run cool. Real American fuses are pricy. I had a Littlefuse 30A rated holder melt using some cheap Chinese fuses from Ebay.

Sorry for abandoning this thread, between work and rehabbing this house, I've been busy.

The 10-50 to L6-30 adapter was created and works perfectly. Only problem now is the fuses are overheating on my OpenEVSE. I think I need a better fuse setup. The ones I have are wimpy panel-mount type and they are burning to the touch after about an hour of charging at 16A.

kubel: Thinking about your original post some more it occurs to me:
1) Besides the adapter (most(all?) EVSE instructions say "Don't use"),

Mine doesn't say that (OpenEVSE).

2) you probably need an extension cord (most(all?) EVSE instructions say "Don't use"), and

No extension cord is being used, I built mine with sufficient length. If I needed one, however, I do have a 10GA cordset repurposed from a datacenter PDU with twistlocks on both sides

3) I think implied safe use strongly suggests changing the circuit breaker for your 10-50 receptacle circuit from 50a to 30a for your intended EVSE use, but since the outlet may be used in the future with a stove requiring a 50a breaker, the situation seems very problematic. A better solution to me seems to change the 10-50 receptacle to a 6-30 receptacle so no adapter is needed, change the breaker from 50a to 30a, and ensure that the neutral wire goes directly back to the main breaker ground/neutral buses (if not (i.e. one or more sub-panels in between) or you're not sure, maybe using a competent electrician to help you out would be wisest).

I found out that the breaker is actually 40A. I have no clue how they were using it with a 50A stove.

In the end, I think I'm going to either rebuild my OpenEVSE in a more watertight case, or get a Bosch unit and mount it on the back of the house.

 

[kubel]

I have found that you have to use genuine Littlefuse or Bussman fuses. I normally use Littlefuse 3AB 30A fuses and they run cool. Real American fuses are pricy. I had a Littlefuse 30A rated holder melt using some cheap Chinese fuses from Ebay.

Thanks, I'll try some higher quality fuses. I'm currently using this as my fuse setup:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BK%2FHKP-R/283-2850-ND/1024094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0326030.MXP/F1779-ND/778640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you know if waterproof panel-mount style fuse holders exist?

 

[GlennD]

Those are the fuses I use. I use an internal dual fuseholder. The fuse holder you referenced should work fine. Just make sure the fuses you have are genuine and not "F" fuses from China. NTE is really bad at supplying them as a sub.

 

[Volt3939]

I have found that you have to use genuine Littlefuse or Bussman fuses. I normally use Littlefuse 3AB 30A fuses and they run cool. Real American fuses are pricy. I had a Littlefuse 30A rated holder melt using some cheap Chinese fuses from Ebay.

Thanks, I'll try some higher quality fuses. I'm currently using this as my fuse setup:

http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/BK%2FHKP-R/283-2850-ND/1024094" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/0326030.MXP/F1779-ND/778640" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Do you know if waterproof panel-mount style fuse holders exist?

If you really want to be waterproof, you should skip panel mounting altogether and just put the fuses on an internal block. Also, think about increasing the contact area of the fuses by using Midget size. I found some Midget panel mounts that are rated 30A, and it's believable, they run really cool compared to the 1/4" size I was using @ 16A. Normally I like to use the totally enclosed fuse holders inside a sealed box:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooper-Bussmann-2-Pole-10x38mm-30A-600V-Indicator-Midget-Fuse-Holder-CHM2I-/390512656086?_trksid=p2054897.l4276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Those are almost gone, I needed a couple...)

 

[kubel]

If you really want to be waterproof, you should skip panel mounting altogether and just put the fuses on an internal block. Also, think about increasing the contact area of the fuses by using Midget size. I found some Midget panel mounts that are rated 30A, and it's believable, they run really cool compared to the 1/4" size I was using @ 16A. Normally I like to use the totally enclosed fuse holders inside a sealed box:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Cooper-Bussmann-2-Pole-10x38mm-30A-600V-Indicator-Midget-Fuse-Holder-CHM2I-/390512656086?_trksid=p2054897.l4276" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

(Those are almost gone, I needed a couple...)

I'm not sure I can cram them in a 4x4 if I do it that way. My OpenEVSE is a 2012 model, so it has the power supply stacked on top of the controller- that eats up a lot of space. I might have to upgrade to an OpenEVSE Plus 2014 model and rebuild my 2012 OpenEVSE in a larger enclosure for permanent installation.

Are fuses recommended? I could just skip out on them entirely. I was also thinking of deleting the CT and disabling the ground check as well since that's caused me nothing but problems when using it on a GFCI.

 

[pchilds]

Are fuses recommended? I could just skip out on them entirely. I was also thinking of deleting the CT and disabling the ground check as well since that's caused me nothing but problems when using it on a GFCI.

Replacing the 2-22kohm resistors with 47kohm will fix your GFCI problems.
IMHO If you wire with #12 wire and never use it on a circuit over 20 amps you can leave out the fuses.

 

[NasGoreList]

just want to make sure I wired my EVSE correctly.

I had dedicated 14-50 outlet in my garage that I converted to L6-30.

14-50 has 2 hots (X,Y), 1 neutral(W) and 1 ground(G) while L6-30 has 2 hots(X,Y) and 1 ground(G). I connected X,Y and G wires to the L6-30 outlet and I put a wire cap on the neutral(W) wire. Charger works fine but I just want to make sure that conversion is done properly.

 

[GlennD]

I just built an OpenEVSE for a man with a 3 wire range style connector for his dryer. When you think about it, since you are not drawing any current from the neutral it is really the same as a ground wire but the wrong color. In any event the EVSE works fine.

 

[KTR]

just want to make sure I wired my EVSE correctly.

I had dedicated 14-50 outlet in my garage that I converted to L6-30.

Did you swap out the 50A breaker for a 30A breaker?

 

[NasGoreList]

circuit is on 40A breaker and I did not change it.

 

[wwhitney]

circuit is on 40A breaker and I did not change it.

You need to change that to a 30A breaker, the receptacle has to be rated at least as high as the breaker.

Cheers, Wayne

 

[aarond12]

You need to change that to a 30A breaker, the receptacle has to be rated at least as high as the breaker.

...for it to be code compliant. Electrically-speaking, there is nothing wrong with what he did.