The 40KWH Battery Topic

[Oostenrijker]

Finished testing the battery: Turtle Mode came around 12.4% SoC and I managed to still drive to the public charging station. So I'm definitely not able to use the total left capacity of my battery pack.



Currently I'm charging, I plugged in 10mins ago and still had about 4kWh left when Turtle Mode turned on. However I have not been able to produce any DTC, despite the difference in voltage reaching up to 612mV before Turtle Mode triggered.

So the dealership has agreed into checking the health of the battery, during the recall. What would be a good strategy? Drop the car off with 0% dash SoC? Because now I know, how far I can run it down actually.



This is while charging: is it because of the balancing that happens during charging? Because where as first I had the "weak cells" message, now I have all cells okay message.

Yes I floored the pedal more frequently down then I would do usually: and I saw one time the dash SoC drop from 50% to 45% while accelerated hard. And after that it got back to 48% dash SoC.



Leafspy actually didn't show me any weak cells, until I parked the car. But checking it a second time, I now only had three weak cells. So I muss conclude, that even though my worry would be valid. It seems less severe when I only still see three weak cell's?

But I guess, I better drop the car around the SoC that these would show up: else this whole battery test, has no meaning to do.

 

[rogersleaf]

70,000 mile figures:

LS stats:
AHr... 100.87
SOH... 87.38%
Hx... 88.86%
SOC... 96.7% and 431 GID
403.54v cells balanced between 4..202 and 4.205v
odo... 70,687
43 QC / 1771 L2’s

Now passing 76,000 miles. Car & battery seems to be stable and working fine. Likely just intuition, but sense the battery capacity is more sensitive to the cold than prior Winters. Thus far it hasn't affected the car's utility for my needs but noticing the usable range is dropping off much faster on those colder days. It's definitely not being left outside this Winter.

LS stats:
AHr... 100.93
SOH... 87.47%
Hx... 91.42%
SOC... 96.2% and 429 GID
402.06v cells balanced between 4.186 and 4.190v
odo... 76,078
43 QC / 1937 L2’s

Passing 80,000 miles and 4 years, 1 month service

LS stats:
AHr... 100.19
SOH... 86.79%
Hx... 88.69%
SOC... 96.2% and 426 GID
403.53v cells balanced between 4.202 and 4.205v
odo... 80,318
43 QC / 2181 L2’s

Passing 85K miles and 4 years, 5 month service. Interesting to note the AHr's and SOH stats are slowly dropping but the GID count is relatively constant and changes in usability/range is not noticeable.

LS stats:
AHr... 98.79
SOH... 85.58%
Hx... 83.75%
SOC... 99.0% and 432 GID
403.72v cells balanced between 4.204 and 4.207v
odo... 85,165
43 QC / 2229 L2’s

 

[DougWantsALeaf]

Thanks for the update. Do you notice much range difference/loss over the 4 years?

 

[aneesh84]

I have been hearing that the leaf consumption improves with milage as compared to when the car is new. So despite the battery degradation in the leaf 40 the range does not change much.

did you notice that?

If true, my theory would be the reduction gearbox wearing initially causing higher consumption when the car is new. On changing my oil i noticed a lot of metal filings.

 

[Oostenrijker]

I have been hearing that the leaf consumption improves with milage as compared to when the car is new. So despite the battery degradation in the leaf 40 the range does not change much.

did you notice that?

If true, my theory would be the reduction gearbox wearing initially causing higher consumption when the car is new. On changing my oil i noticed a lot of metal filings.

I think the improvement in consumption, is most likely to account to your tires getting lesser and lesser profile. On my previous ICE I fitted brand new 4-season tires, and gasoline consumption went up from that point.

After driving many years with this tires, they lost approximately half of the profile. And I also noticed an improvement in fuel consumption, when the tires where having lesser profile.

 

[LeftieBiker]

I think that the majority of the improvement is from the driver getting better at driving efficiently. Followed by tire wear.

 

[Oostenrijker]

I think that the majority of the improvement is from the driver getting better at driving efficiently. Followed by tire wear.

That might be certainly true: I have argued to the dealership, that the 4 to 6kWh I can't use due to weak cells. Means a loss from about 50km of range, as I drive on average 12kWh/100km.

Which should mean I only use 24kWh for 200km: dealing with them has been very tiresome, because they won't respond to whatever I write them. And even though Leafspy delivers factual information, they won't recognise it.

I've escalated my issue now to the big guys on the top of dealership: because I don't feel taken serious by them. That's why I decided, to describe even better, what it would mean for my range.

I'm going drive the Leaf now on long journeys with Leafspy and I'm not afraid, to go as low as 12% SoC. Because I knew I got Turtle Mode there last time.

 

[cwerdna]

It results in a loss of range of the bottom, but mostly Nissan won't acknowledge it. Because obviously CLVI tests are mostly done on a to high SoC.
...
Nissan still gets away with it, and it's frustrating the hell out of me: because I have been arguing for weeks already about that with the dealership.

I don't have access to a gen 2 Leaf service manual but that was most running CVLI at high SoC doesn't make sense and wasn't true for gen 1. See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16070.

Find another dealer? Get access to the gen 2 service manual?

I haven't followed all your posts carefully (no time) but as I recall, you have the classic symptoms of the rear stack being more degraded and possibly even with some bulging cells due to the rear stack getting and staying hotter due probably due to previous QCing.

This is an edge case often w/Leafs used for taxi or ride share duty. So, likely the % of Leafs with this problem aren't high. Anyone else who hits this likely doesn't know what's going on and doesn't have Leaf Spy to see it either, which means there's likely a sizeable % of folks who haven't reported this and don't know how/what to report.

 

[Oostenrijker]

It results in a loss of range of the bottom, but mostly Nissan won't acknowledge it. Because obviously CLVI tests are mostly done on a to high SoC.
...
Nissan still gets away with it, and it's frustrating the hell out of me: because I have been arguing for weeks already about that with the dealership.

I don't have access to a gen 2 Leaf service manual but that was most running CVLI at high SoC doesn't make sense and wasn't true for gen 1. See https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=16070.

Find another dealer? Get access to the gen 2 service manual?

I haven't followed all your posts carefully (no time) but as I recall, you have the classic symptoms of the rear stack being more degraded and possibly even with some bulging cells due to the rear stack getting and staying hotter due probably due to previous QCing.

This is an edge case often w/Leafs used for taxi or ride share duty. So, likely the % of Leafs with this problem aren't high. Anyone else who hits this likely doesn't know what's going on and doesn't have Leaf Spy to see it either, which means there's likely a sizeable % of folks who haven't reported this and don't know how/what to report.

They haven't got back to me after I escalated things to the aftersales guy superior's: because none of my concerns have been answered. The only thing what I know they going do, is doing an battery test. I have asked of this is an CLVI battery test, but have gotten no answers. For me this battery test, should be no more then a formality to go through.

I only know that I should drop it with an low as possible SoC before dropping off: perhaps even drive a little bit more aggressively, then I do usually. Because it makes the weak cell's more obviously.

I just want some reinsurance, that no matter what's the outcome of the battery test: that they going do something with the matter. The main issue is, that I don't feel myself being taken seriously.

And perhaps that's particularly because I'm in the autism spectrum, but that shouldn't change anything. I'm the costumer and they should be more customer friendly: if they don't have time to answer my emails, then they could plain out say it!

Because as long something like that is not communicated, I will keep sending mails whenever the issue is getting worse. The last mail I send, I described them losing 8% SoC in matter of seconds, and requested they should see it by themselves.

 

[rogersleaf]

Thanks for the update. Do you notice much range difference/loss over the 4 years?

Compared to brand new, maybe 15-20 miles less range overall. It's not enough loss to affect my overall satisfaction. But understand I don't need to use this car for road trips and it's a very very rare event to not charge at home. It's obvious that 20K miles/yr is my usage trend so isn't any grass growing around those tires and none of that is road trips. What is noticeable is the increasing magnitude of how cold weather affects the battery capacity. It seems that protecting the battery from extreme cold becomes more important with age. So if expect sub-freezing temps I make sure it's parked inside and use the timer for overnight charging set to end slightly early, then a 2nd startup to preheat.

 

[zarniwoop]

For anyone who has gotten a 40kWh battery replacement for the year 2018+, what was the part number of your battery? I have a 2017 and am waiting for a replacement, and Nissan HQ told me that they have different part numbers than what I will get.

 

[cwerdna]

See bottom of https://static.nhtsa.gov/odi/tsbs/2020/MC-10171230-0001.pdf for 40 kWh packs that should be ordered for 30 kWh Leafs in the US.

 

[Astral]

As far as I know there are no more replacements, only buy-back option from Nissan. Not sure if it is for all Leafs or only up until 2018 model.

 

[Astral]

If I go for a 580 kilometers trip, does it make sense to divide it into two parts? For example, I can start the trip at 7am and arrive at a destination approx 300km away at around 11am. This would require 2 fast charges to reach it (also I need the juice for later to continue the trip). Then I could leave the car on parking from 11am to 6pm, and then continue the trip for next 300km approx. I need another 2 fast charges to reach final destination.

So I would have a 7h downtime from driving, would it help cool down the battery? Presumably this is during the Summer so outside temperature would be 30c approx.

So the question is, with the outside temp being 30c, will the battery cool down in 7h of rest? Noticably.

 

[Stanton]

So the question is, with the outside temp being 30c, will the battery cool down in 7h of rest? Noticably.

This isn't the best trip to make in an EV (we would use my wife's ICE car), but I definitely wouldn't make that trip in a Leaf (with no TMS). Not saying the Leaf isn't a good car, but you will possibly do long-term damage (without any short-term issues) to the battery in under those conditions in those temps.

 

[Astral]

This was not the question

I am aware of all the issues. Just wondering if it would make any difference to have this 7h gap or no.

I have to make this trip once per year. I don't have any ICE cars available to me.

 

[Oostenrijker]

If I go for a 580 kilometers trip, does it make sense to divide it into two parts? For example, I can start the trip at 7am and arrive at a destination approx 300km away at around 11am. This would require 2 fast charges to reach it (also I need the juice for later to continue the trip). Then I could leave the car on parking from 11am to 6pm, and then continue the trip for next 300km approx. I need another 2 fast charges to reach final destination.

So I would have a 7h downtime from driving, would it help cool down the battery? Presumably this is during the Summer so outside temperature would be 30c approx.

So the question is, with the outside temp being 30c, will the battery cool down in 7h of rest? Noticably.

This is what I actually do: I'm going to Austria, and this time Tirol. A little bit further away than Vorarlberg, where I went in the summer. My strategy is as follows.

I would drive the first day approximately 500km, and the second day only 300km. Then the first day I will do 3 quick charges, and perhaps a fourth one if I really can't make it.

By lowering your speed: let's say you drive max 90km/h, and only faster while you have the advantage of going down hill? Then you could perhaps, drive maximum 230km or perhaps even a little more: before needing to quick charge.

But I plan my chargings stops, also according to the availability of quick chargers. So if there isn't a quick charger in 180km, then I prefer to do the first quick charger earlier.

If you don't drive to fast, do your quick charges strategic. For example, I plan the second quick charge at a free IKEA CHAdeMO charger. Being limited at 20kW, so it takes longer. But in the meantime we would eat in the IKEA restaurant, so it doesn't matter. And while it counts as a QC session: it doesn't heat the car up as much, when using a CHAdeMO charger that I have to pay for.

I wouldn't limit myself, going on roadtrips: just because of the limitations of the Nissan Leaf. But yeah on a hot summer day, the battery might overheat more quickly. Sadly this year summer was a lot of rain....

 

[Stanton]

I am aware of all the issues. Just wondering if it would make any difference to have this 7h gap or no.

Yes: the 7 hour gap will let the battery cool...but how much depends on ambient temps.

 

[Astral]

I guess I will know once I test it.

@Oostenrijker, thanks for your input. From what I understood it is not good to go too deep, let's say below 20% because it also creates more heat when pulling power from such a low battery %. SO it would be best to stop for a quick charge let's say at 30%. And then again it is not good to charge too far as it also creates a lot of heat if you go above 80%, so again maybe stop at 70%. Charging 30-70% and driving slower on motorway, let's say 100km/h, should result in less heat buildup.

So maybe more QC stops is better in this way then to do bigger QC stops like 20-80 or even more.

 

[Oostenrijker]

You should be able to drive an Nissan Leaf 40kWh, safely down to let's say 10% and it's a actually only 20% when you would open Leafspy. And even when drive it down to --% then you still have atleast 10% left.

I know you are a big advocate of staying between 30% and 80% SoC? But by doing this, you limiting yourself a lot. Your Leaf won't break, from going down to --% every once in a while.

Charge the car the first QC session up to 80% for example, but try doing only until 65% for the second or third QC. I found this worked better, as charging speed goes down a lot around 65% SoC.