GaslessInSeattle
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Leaf Number: 850

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:43 am

Winter does seem to be a whole other kettle of fish. this morning I charged to 80% when it was still cold and then later this afternoon I went out to drive and noticed it showed 11 bars instead of the usual 10... and the air temperature had warmed, presumably causing another bar to "grow". This is going to be an interesting couple of months!
Gasless: Silver 2012 SL, traded in for Lease on 1/13
Tesla S P85, Gray, pano, carbon fiber, took delivery: 2-9-13... LOVE this car!
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LEAFfan
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Leaf Number: 1855
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Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:08 am

After 3 Blink QC's, one at 100% (86% SOC gauge/12 bars), two at 90% (SOC at 76% & 79%/9 bars), I L2 charged (Blink) tonight to 80% from 5 bars to 10 in 96 mins.and my gauge hit 81.4%! It's usually 76.8%. I'm wondering if the QCs are balancing my pack or is it something else? It was around 70 degrees in the garage.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

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TomT
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Leaf Number: 000360
Location: California, now Georgia
Contact: Website

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 6:02 am

I noticed a similar situation yesterday. I didn't grow any bars per se, but my normal 80 percent charge over night resulted in far less regeneration (only two circles) than I usually have when I left in the afternoon. Also, my first (tenth) bar lasted for over 11 miles, which is atypical.
GaslessInSeattle wrote:Winter does seem to be a whole other kettle of fish. this morning I charged to 80% when it was still cold and then later this afternoon I went out to drive and noticed it showed 11 bars instead of the usual 10... and the air temperature had warmed, presumably causing another bar to "grow". This is going to be an interesting couple of months!
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

defiancecp
Posts: 367
Joined: Mon Aug 16, 2010 4:02 pm
Delivery Date: 25 Aug 2011
Location: Little Rock

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:30 am

I've driven a week or so in the low 40's. Tried a couple days with climate control and another few without.

For reference, in the high 60's or above, I get 4.2-4.3m/kwh every day on my commute. In the low 40's, I get 3.5 with cc off. CC on might drop that 1-2 points. I don't remeber ever getting 4.4 on my full route (not since getting these tires anyway :), and I only get below 4.2 if I drive dramatically different for some reason (late for work & take the interstate instead of my normal route for example).

When the cold front first hit, the efficiency drop was sudden and extreme - I was instantly getting low 3.x's. When I finally started working out how to run the heater as minimally impactful as possible (set it in the 70-72 range, pre-heat in the morning, keep the defrost off, keep it in eco) I think I maxed out at around 3.5.

I tried a couple days with CC off (as much as possible - ran defrost for 10-15 seconds at a time 3-4 times to keep the windows clear)). Still around 3.5. And I know the spurts of defrost were not the issue, it was reduced right from the start (surely I'm not the only one that knows what the efficiency should be at certain points on my route, right? :) )

Heat can be a huge drain, but it doesn't have to be. The cold is still a HUGE impact to the range, regardless of CC.

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JimSouCal
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Joined: Tue Feb 08, 2011 12:54 pm

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 9:41 am

defiancecp wrote: The cold is still a HUGE impact to the range, regardless of CC.
So I observe... Here in Souther California, we have different climate zones. Last Friday night, I went out to the Valley area of Los Angeles, and my car sat in a lot for several hours--8PM to Midnight--that night at temps in the low 40's--as compared to mid 60's more typical where I live in WLA. There was a significant reduction of available energy--it caught me unaware--even so I had plenty of juice to get home, but I've been warned.

edatoakrun
Posts: 5222
Joined: Thu Nov 11, 2010 9:33 am
Delivery Date: 15 May 2011
Leaf Number: 2184
Location: Shasta County, North California

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 11:24 am

This video shows how Volvo may use ethanol to heat both cabin and battery to extend their BEV's range in winter.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FjLqcJkG ... r_embedded" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

Sounds complicated and expensive to me, but probably cheaper than loading up the car with more batteries, for BEVs in extremely cold climates.

I’m planning a no recharge (?) drive of about 88 miles and 6,000 ft. ascent/descent today, to see what the 35 degree F temperatures, during charging this AM, did to my range.

edit 7:03 pm.

Missed it by that much...
Last edited by edatoakrun on Tue Nov 08, 2011 8:06 pm, edited 1 time in total.
no condition is permanent

SanDust
Posts: 1363
Joined: Fri Aug 06, 2010 10:54 am

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 12:08 pm

evnow wrote:Then, we are back to the question of - why does m/kwh go down even when not using CC.
You've come a long ways from accusing me of making it up when I told you that winter was going to take a bite out of the Leaf's range. At least you're now asking why.

Even with CC off you have top line and adjustment issues. A cold battery isn't going to produce the same amount of energy as a warm one. That's the top line problem. The adjustments are that you have increased aero losses due to colder air, increased rolling resistance losses due to colder tires, and increased drive train losses due to colder parts. Throw in reduced regen due to increased losses, plus some wind for good measure, and it's not too hard to end up with a 25% hit to the range. Throw in heating and that can go to 30% and even up to 40%.

The good news is that 40% is probably the worst case scenario, but time will tell. The other good news is that, unlike heat, which will kill the battery, cold just reduces it's performance.

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TomT
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Location: California, now Georgia
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Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:01 pm

The same situation persisted today, with 12.1 miles on the first bar...
TomT wrote:I noticed a similar situation yesterday. I didn't grow any bars per se, but my normal 80 percent charge over night resulted in far less regeneration (only two circles) than I usually have when I left in the afternoon. Also, my first (tenth) bar lasted for over 11 miles, which is atypical.
GaslessInSeattle wrote:Winter does seem to be a whole other kettle of fish. this morning I charged to 80% when it was still cold and then later this afternoon I went out to drive and noticed it showed 11 bars instead of the usual 10... and the air temperature had warmed, presumably causing another bar to "grow". This is going to be an interesting couple of months!
Leaf SL 2011 to 2016, Volt Premier 2016 to 2019, and now:
2019 Tesla Model 3; LR, RWD, FSD, 19" Sport Wheels, silver/black; built 3/17/19, delivered 3/29/19.

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evnow
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Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 1:23 pm

SanDust wrote:You've come a long ways from accusing me of making it up when I told you that winter was going to take a bite out of the Leaf's range. At least you're now asking why.
Links needed to substantiate your accusation. Untill then I call this BS.

Afterall I started a thread on this question last year. It has been common knowledge for a long time that temperature will reduce range (the question was always how much & the physics behind it).
1st Leaf : 2/28/2011 to 5/6/2013
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LEAFfan
Posts: 4828
Joined: Fri Apr 23, 2010 6:08 pm
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Location: Phoenix Area

Re: My Leaf Stats : Range vs Temperature

Tue Nov 08, 2011 7:32 pm

SanDust wrote:Throw in reduced regen due to increased losses, plus some wind for good measure, and it's not too hard to end up with a 25% hit to the range. Throw in heating and that can go to 30% and even up to 40%.
The other good news is that, unlike heat, which will kill the battery, cold just reduces it's performance.
With all those factors you mentioned, I've only lost 10%, nowhere near 25%. Heat will NOT kill the battery pack UNLESS it is 120 or hotter for 24 hours or more. Our summers will NOT hurt our battery packs, that's just FUD. So when you say 'heat', please quantify or it's just FUD.
2013 LEAF SV Del. 2/28/13
2013 LEAF World Record for Most Miles Driven On One Charge-188 miles/8.8 m/kW h
4.8 kW DC PV ($ .91/W fully installed)/ Dec., 2010

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