Building New Home - Required Wiring for Charger

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jopeters

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Aug 8, 2011
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Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?

Nissan states:

Home charging dock will require a 220/240V 40 amp dedicated circuit connected to a breaker. The charging dock will need to be hard-wired directly to the circuit by a certified electrician.

I have requested a 240V 40 amp plug and that what will be installed in my garage for my future leaf. What are the benefits of a 240V 40 amp over a 220V 30 amp? I know I could go with a portable charger, but since our house is being being built thought I would install one along with the circuit.

Would can I expect the folks that Nissan contracts out to charge me since I already have the wiring in place? Are there fixed chargers out there ( not portable ) that I could order and have electrician install. (would it be cheaper that way).

Just need yal advice....
 
jopeters said:
Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter? ...
Click to expand...
The LEAF only draws a maximum of 16a at 240v. This means that 20a 240v circuit is adequate for the LEAF to charge at it's maximum rate. However, the EVSE that Nissan "recommends" supports charging at a 30a rate. Therefore the circuit it's connected to has to be rated at 40a, even though your current LEAF will never use that extra capacity.

None of this affects the actual amount of electricity you use, or your bill, just the amount of money you have to spend doing the wiring. Many people already have unused 20a or 30a circuits in their garage, for a dryer or water heater for example, but not 40a. Also, some people have the capacity in their electric supply panels to add the smaller circuits, but not the 40a.

The evseupgrade.com device draws a max of 16a (just like the LEAF) and can be run on a 240v 20a circuit. You can certainly plug it into a 40a circuit, however.
 
My builder says it 220V 40 Amp is that what Nissan requires for their charger? I just don't want to pay for their expensive wiring, when I could have it done when the home is being built.
 
jopeters said:
Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?
Click to expand...
40A wiring can carry more current than 30A and therefore allows you to accommodate higher power charge stations that will work with the future 6.6kW chargers in the Leaf. It won't make your electricity bill any worse. It's just that the 40A wiring is thicker and cost only a little bit more than the 30A wiring.

If you plan to have a stationary EVSE that has 30A rating, you cannot use the 240V 30A circuit because there's no built-in margin left. So instead you must use the next step up, the 240V 40A circuit.

It doesn't make any sense to consider installing a 240V 30A circuit. I would install a 240V 40A circuit at the minimum. I would even consider running even thicker wiring (6 awg) even if you use 40A breaker for now, just in case you want to upgrade to 50A circuit later on when more powerful/faster chargers are available in future electric cars.
 
jopeters said:
My builder says it 220V 40 Amp is that what Nissan requires for their charger? I just don't want to pay for their expensive wiring, when I could have it done when the home is being built.
Click to expand...
Yes, 40a is required for the Nissan (Aerovironment) EVSE. But be warned that people who have gotten quotes from Aerovironment have STILL been quoted $2200 for the install, even when the builder already had the correct wiring in place. In your shoes, I would have the 40a wiring put in during construction, and buy your EVSE from someone else. There are a few good choices, now. Then either install yourself, or if you're not handy, have an electrician come out and connect the wires up.
 
The NEC for EVSE calls for 32 amps for level 2 charging which ends up requiring #8 wire for 40 amperes continuous duty.

NEC 625.14 Ratings ...

Level 2. This is the primary and preferred method of EV charging at both private and public facilities. It requires special equipment and connection to an electric power supply dedicated to EV charging. The voltage of this connection is either 240 volts or 208 volts. The maximum load is 32 amperes (7.7 kVA at 240 volts or 6.7 kVA at 208 volts). The minimum circuit and over current rating for this connection is 40 amperes (32 X 1.25 = 40 amperes) . Electric vehicles are treated as continuous loads. See 625.21 for sizing over
current protection devices.
 
Volusiano said:
jopeters said:
Ok, so I am confused what the difference is between 220V 30 amp or 240V 40 amp circuit? How will it affect my charging or bill or does it even matter?
Click to expand...
40A wiring can carry more current than 30A and therefore allows you to accommodate higher power charge stations that will work with the future 6.6kW chargers in the Leaf. It won't make your electricity bill any worse. It's just that the 40A wiring is thicker and cost only a little bit more than the 30A wiring.

If you plan to have a stationary EVSE that has 30A rating, you cannot use the 240V 30A circuit because there's no built-in margin left. So instead you must use the next step up, the 240V 40A circuit.

It doesn't make any sense to consider installing a 240V 30A circuit. I would install a 240V 40A circuit at the minimum. I would even consider running even thicker wiring (6 awg) even if you use 40A breaker for now, just in case you want to upgrade to 50A circuit later on when more powerful/faster chargers are available in future electric cars.
Click to expand...

What gauge is 6 awg??
 
6awg is 6 gauge. American Wire Gauge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

All the crazy big quotes for a charger install are just GOUGING !!!

My charger is on the opposite side of the wall of my supply/breaker box, so it was a very simple install. But, several years ago, I had a 240/50amp plug put in for a welder. The guy charged me $175 (and this is in southern California, where nothing is cheap).

The BLINK charger literally hangs on the wall with four lag screws, and plugs in. Mine was installed by Baker Electric under the Ecotality project, and is NOT hard wired.

Very, very simple install. One hour-ish.

I would not get the big clunky wall hanging charger unless I had a 2013 LEAF with a 6.6kWh charger (27.5 amps, plus heating losses up to about 31.5 amp current draw from the wall).

Have a guy put in a 240volt/50amp breaker, wiring, and wall plug. Then, when you get the car, send the charger in for the 16 amp upgrade.

YOU'RE DONE !! Total cost, $300-ish for the EVSEupgrade.com, and $200 for the plug in the wall.

You're also ready for a 6.6 down the road, or even something a bit more robust (7.7?).
 
TonyWilliams said:
6awg is 6 gauge. American Wire Gauge http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/American_wire_gauge

All the crazy big quotes for a charger install are just GOUGING !!!

My charger is on the opposite side of the wall of my supply/breaker box, so it was a very simple install. But, several years ago, I had a 240/50amp plug put in for a welder. The guy charged me $175 (and this is in southern California, where nothing is cheap).

The BLINK charger literally hangs on the wall with four lag screws, and plugs in. Mine was installed by Baker Electric under the Ecotality project, and is NOT hard wired.

Very, very simple install. One hour-ish.

I would not get the big clunky wall hanging charger unless I had a 2013 LEAF with a 6.6kWh charger (27.5 amps, plus heating losses up to about 31.5 amp current draw from the wall).


So what changes are in store for the 2013 Leaf? I am ordering a 2012....Should I by Nissan's charger? I am going to try to have the best wiring installed since I am building a house.
Have a guy put in a 240volt/50amp breaker, wiring, and wall plug. Then, when you get the car, send the charger in for the 16 amp upgrade.

YOU'RE DONE !! Total cost, $300-ish for the EVSEupgrade.com, and $200 for the plug in the wall.

You're also ready for a 6.6 down the road, or even something a bit more robust (7.7?).
Click to expand...
 
The wiring and circuit must meet the requirements of the charging dock. As posted above there needs to be a 20% margin for continuous loads such as EV charging. Current LEAF only charges at 16a and 240 volts max. (it is all 120v & 240v BTW.... no 110, 220 or 230) If you use a charging dock rated for 16a you only need a 20 amp circuit. This would include SPX (adjusted to 16a), Leviton 160 and the upgrade on the Nissan OEM cord. If you install the AV and most other units they are desighned to charge at 32 amps and require a 40a circuit. This is over kill for the current LEAF. Even if in the future you upgrade the vehicle with a new model that charges faster you can still use the 16a charging at home.

My city code requires a 40a circuit installed for EV charging in all new housing. I plan to downsize the breaker to 20a and install an evse with just 16a charging.
 
jopeters said:
So what changes are in store for the 2013 Leaf? I am ordering a 2012....Should I by Nissan's charger? I am going to try to have the best wiring installed since I am building a house.
Click to expand...


There are lots of chargers out there. I would get one with no frills, and I have no idea what the specs are on a Nissan branded one.

Hopefully, somebody who knows the various options will list them out here.

EDIT: Click Here!

Click Here #2!!!

Like I said earlier, I wouldn't even get one; I'd just use the stock Nissan EVSE that comes with the car, and have it modified to 240/16amp, which will charge the current LEAF at its maximum rate on L2.

The best wiring in my mind is exactly what has been suggested. 240/50 amp service and wiring. The electrician will match the wires accordingly.

In 2013, the LEAF will come with a charger that is twice as fast the current (the actual charger is onboard the the, behind the right rear passenger seat). A 240/50 setup would handle that car, also. And you could plug in a welder there!
 
smkettner said:
Even if in the future you upgrade the vehicle with a new model that charges faster you can still use the 16a charging at home.
Click to expand...
This is a key point to remember, and one that is not mentioned often. A 6.6 kw charger will charge a battery the size the LEAF has in about 3.5 hours instead of 7 hours, but who cares, since you usually have all night to do the charging. I am aware of only two valid reasons for people to dream of having a faster charger in the car:
  1. Faster charging away from home
  2. Dreams of a larger battery

The first one obviously doesn't affect what you put in your house. The second one is only a dream at this point, which won't become real for several years. Besides, the correct way to look at the situation is that a 20A 240v circuit can provide 16A continuous, and 16A for 10 hours (you are at home ten hours a night, aren't you?) is enough for at least 150 miles. Do you really drive more than 150 miles per day (50K miles/year)? If so, then yes, you had better plan on a 40A circuit. The only other valid excuse I can think of is if you have time-of-use electric billing with a 5 hour super-off-peak period.

Ray
 
If you only charge to 80% the night before, and you end up using your car the next morning and you use the freeway, your usable range is really only 55 miles roughly. You can come home in the middle of the day with almost 0 left, and if you need to make another trip that afternoon asap, you won't be able to use the car again for another 6-7 hours.

Having a 6.6kW charger means that you can make a quick turn-around charge and have your car ready at 80% again in about 3 hours instead of 6 hrs. That way, your car will have a much more useful total range of 110 miles a day.

Also, my summer peak hours are 1pm-8pm. So let's say if I get home at 10am and I want to fully recharge the car because I need it by 4pm. Yeah, a 3.3kW charger will fill up my car by 4pm, but this also means 3 of those 6 hrs of charging will be during peak time with the higher premium rate. But a 6.6kW charger will allow me to finish charging before the 1pm peak hour rate kicks in.

Even for a home scenario, I'll take the 6.6kW charger over the 3.3kW charger any day, because I don't ONLY charge overnight. I charge during the day, too, all the times, especially on the weekend, when the off peak rate applies all weekend long.
 
Well, They have put in a 50 amp. 240v circuit. I took a a photo of the wiring , I want it to be ready for the next generation
on of charging. Its a 6/3 stated on the wiring, what ever that means???????????????. Is this what I need for future quick charging,

JP
 
jopeters41 said:
Well, They have put in a 50 amp. 240v circuit. I took a a photo of the wiring , I want it to be ready for the next generation
on of charging. Its a 6/3 stated on the wiring, what ever that means???????????????. Is this what I need for future quick charging,

JP
Click to expand...
I think 6/3 means there are 3 wires of size 6 awg (gauge), which is the proper size to handle up to 50A current. Your ARE ready for the next generation charging. It's smart of you to go with 50A 6awg wiring.

What breaker and outlet type did you end up using?
 
smkettner said:
50amp is good for the next generation and the third generation many years away.
Click to expand...

If you happen to be in line for a Tesla Model S, I would wire a 90A or 100A circuit, and use a CS-90/CS-100, that will charge at the full 75A rate (18KW) that J-1772 is capable of, the initial Tesla Model S's are comming with a 300 mile pack, that could use it. Other than that 1 EV, 32A MAX (40 AMP circuit), will be good for anything else out there.

http://www.clippercreek.com/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=84&Itemid=164" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;

http://www.clippercreek.com/documents/PDF/product_information/commercial/ClipperCreek%20CS%20Series%20Brochure.pdf" onclick="window.open(this.href);return false;
 

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