Bouldergramp said:
+1DaveinOlyWA said:
jjeff said:
If you read the very fine print, you'll find that the $30K price is after all rebates. Also, that price is for the two wheel drive version with a smaller battery which is good for 263 mi of range. So a $40K MSRP is likely for a stripped down version and $50K-$55K for a full boat with the improved range. Not much different than any other new EV announcements. No big cost reduction, just the usual marketing hype.DaveinOlyWA said:
You are absolutely correct, I did some reading mostly at InsideEVs mostly in the comment section and as stated, NOT the 300-mile version for $30k which I think is kind of deceptive advertising and again only 2WD which some might be able to forgo but not in the snow belt where I live. Well actually I've been getting by without it for years but it's one of the big reasons I'm wanting to finally get an SUV, that and a higher seating position.johnlocke said:
Yes with the common RV 14-50 outlet the max you could charge would be around 9600w (50a breaker derated to 80%) or 11,520w running your 14-50 outlet with a 60a breaker and again derated to 80% which I believe would be OK if you used 6a wiring as a 14-50 outlet itself I believe is rated for 50a continuous, it's just the breaker that is not, a 60a breaker derated to 80% would be 48a.Flyct said:
and some very impressive J1772 cable!I think that outlet is only rated up to 40A continuous. For a 48A EVSE, you'll have to hardwire it or get a __-60 outlet.jjeff said:
Or go three phase, there is already a standard for that (type 2, already used by EVs nearly everywhere in the world outside North America and China). There are even 43 kW EVSEs available off the shelf; there is one a few miles from my home. But the cable gets pretty heavy for that; 22 kW 3-phase is more reasonable. Two whole EVSEs and cables is pretty impractical, it seems to me.jjeff said:
Three phase for residential use is highly unusual. Your utility may not even offer it for residential use. I know because I tried. SDG&E wouldn't allow me to do it even though the three phase lines are directly overhead on a distribution pole in my backyard. I had wanted the extra power for a workshop. Anyway 19KW charging is an answer in search of a question. Tesla had a similar option a few years age but nobody bought it and they discontinued it. If 11KW isn't enough , then you need a DCFC anyway. Five hours to charge vs 9 hours isn't a deal breaker. either way it's overnight or a full work day charging. It might make sense in Europe where three phase 220VAC is a common wiring option but that's still more of a convivence than a requirement. Oh yeah, go price a 3 phase breaker box. You'll have to check commercial/industrial sources and they aren't cheap.coulomb said:
Those would likely be 7200V (phase to phase) distribution lines, not low voltage (120/240V). I was going to post that this seems unreasonable, until I remembered that your existing transformer has the centre tap grounded (for split phase). That makes it impossible to just add two single phase transformers (presumably good value because they're produced in very high volume) for the other two phases; instead you'd have to add a single three-phase transformer with the centre of the secondary's Y point grounded to get 3 x 240V with respect to neutral/ground. You can't use the thee-phase transformer to replace the old one either, unless it had an extra tap and a half extended winding (6 LV outputs, see phase diagram below; that's not a standard transformer my any means).johnlocke said:
A few comments (just on electrical services, haven't been following why 3 phase services came up):coulomb said:
Merely for higher AC charging power. A fairly rare need.wwhitney said:
Yes. But then one end of each secondary is connected to neutral/ground, which means you can't supply both 120V and 240V outlets in the usual way. I suppose you could put all the 120V outlets on one winding, and have the 240V outlet connect neutral to one end. That would work, except for outlets with 4 terminals, otherwise the one labelled neutral would actually be 120V above earth, and that would presumably be a safety risk (I'm unclear on that point; live chassis radios are now rather rare). It might overload that one winding, though it could be wound with thicker copper than the other windings to compensate. One phase would take all the outlet loads plus 1/3 of the EV load, but most residences are single phase anyway, so that's no different.
Yes, though again the 240V loads would have non-standard potentials with respect to ground. Some would have higher than 120V from "neutral" to ground, I think. [ Edit: sigh, No. They would all be 120V with respect to ground. ]
That seems the same as your first point, assuming that there are GPOs at the site. Even specialised sites like EV charging stations would I think have at least a few GPOs for convenience, cleaning, maintenance, etc. So the same comments re non-standard potentials with respect to ground apply.
Edit: I had confused 208Y with high leg delta. Sigh.GerryAZ said:
On a 208Y/120V system you can supply the 120V loads from any of the 3 phases L-N, and you can't get 240V at all. You can get 208V L-L, and many 240V loads will work at 208V and are so labeled. 240V loads that are primarily resistive (e.g. electric oven) will only get 75% power when run at 208V. Some apartment buildings are supplied with 208Y/120V and then supply each apartment with a 3-wire 120/208V system, consisting of the neutral and 2 of the 3 phase conductors. A 208V EVSE at a given current level provides sqrt(3)/2 = 86.6% of the power that a 240V EVSE would provide.coulomb said:
On a 4-wire high leg 240V delta system, the L-N voltages are 120V, 120V, and 208V. Loads are not supply L-N on the 208V "high leg", it is only used for 3-wire 240V delta loads.coulomb said:
Not quite--my first point was that for pole mounted transformers, 3 single phase transformers would typically be used; and my last point was that if a 120/240V single phase service was being changed to 208Y/120V, I think the existing transformer could be reconfigured, with just 2 new transformers brought in, rather than needing 3 new ones. Not 100% sure on that.coulomb said:
