Goodbye Leaf, Hello Bolt Thanks to Carvana

I just sold my 2017 Leaf 30 S for over $19,000 to Carvana - the check cleared so it’s not a dream.

I had been looking to replace my Leaf with another one but the pickings are limited and some dealers are selling over MSRP which is not something I would do. The kicker for me for the Bolt was the new tax law which means the Bolt will once again be eligible for the $7,500 purchase incentive as of January 2023, although the full amount is an unknown right now. At least the Bolt will get $3,750 at a minimum.

As to pricing, the Bolt EUV I have on order will run me about $29,000, less Fed and State incentives which could net me $9,750. So my Carvana sale and incentives give me $28,750 (hopefully!) which would make the Bolt purchase a wash!

The best I could do for the same money would be a Leaf 40. With the Bolt’s higher range, it’s a no-brainer to go with the Bolt.

Great plan. The Bolt is the EV value champion now. I would get one if it had a wider back seat.

Oh man.....now I'm tempted. I may have to test drive a Bolt to see how it feels. I love my Leaf but if I could get even close to $19k for it and then reap the fed/state tax rebates _again_ it could be too much to pass up.

Make sure that you drive one over a highway with expansion joints.

'A bird in hand is worth two in the bush' comes to mind,
But good luck.

And it is definitely true that old LEAFs are being bought up by the internet retailers for ridiculous prices. There is going to be a backlash from consumers who feel scammed when they learn what they bought for top dollar cannot make their drive in the winter.

Will it be
LEAFS SUCK !!!
or will it be
EVS SUCK !!!

?

SageBrush said:

Will it be
LEAFS SUCK !!!
or will it be
EVS SUCK !!!

?

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Both are wrong.

https://securityboulevard.com/2022/08/tesla-in-race-against-time-to-suck-owners-dry-before-theyre-killed-in-a-fire/

That blog was clearly written by either an EV hater (in general) or a Tesla hater since it clearly exaggerates the fire risk. I won't be buying a used LEAF or other EV and have no intention of selling mine so I don't care about the used prices. I am glad that some are able to take advantage of the present market to either break even or make a profit on their LEAF's.

I'm considering a Bolt EUV to trade in my 2022 Leaf SL Plus. One of the biggest reasons I'm considering trading in the Leaf is because the one feature it's lacking, ventilated seats. I wish Nissan had included it in the top trim and it's quite a head scratcher as to why it doesn't have many features for the $40K~ish price that it MSRP'd for.

I had a Kia EV6 on order since March, but the Kia dealership that I placed my order with just couldn't get one ordered for me and would never give me updates. I also have a BMW i4 e40 on order, but I may go ahead and cancel that order as the MSRP I was quoted for a 2022 will change in 2023.

I actually enjoy driving the Leaf around, as it is deceptively quick off the line and is a nice city driving vehicle. I just wish Nissan had equipped it with features that are more in line with a $40K vehicle.

I do hope Carvana gave you top dollar for your Leaf. I was already quoted about $38K to sell my Leaf back to Nissan, and I'm tempted to sell it and just rely on my garage queen for commuting or find a cheap ICE alternative. My Leaf's days are numbered, I can't see myself holding on to it past next spring.

Carvana gave me the best offer of all - I am still amazed at how much they paid me.

I too looked at other options, but the new tax law tilted the economics way in favor of the Bolt. Also the big Bolt plus is active battery cooling. So I am waiting until January to take delivery and using my gasser in the meantime.

joeriv said:

Carvana gave me the best offer of all - I am still amazed at how much they paid me.

I too looked at other options, but the new tax law tilted the economics way in favor of the Bolt. Also the big Bolt plus is active battery cooling. So I am waiting until January to take delivery and using my gasser in the meantime.

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Unless you are planning on taking long trips, active battery cooling isn't very useful in Connecticut.

joeriv said:

Carvana gave me the best offer of all - I am still amazed at how much they paid me.

I too looked at other options, but the new tax law tilted the economics way in favor of the Bolt. Also the big Bolt plus is active battery cooling. So I am waiting until January to take delivery and using my gasser in the meantime.

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You might reconsider your options. I just put an order in for a Blazer EV that is due out in Summer of 2023. I suspect if you put your order in now, you might be one of the first. Of course, this is if you can swing the $40k+ MSRP. My dealership has been relatively good to me about MSRP, so they have won my business. The Blazer SS is tempting, but less range and performance that's not as good as my garage queen, not ready to swap out my ICE, but my Leaf daily driver, sure.

WetEV said:

joeriv said:

Carvana gave me the best offer of all - I am still amazed at how much they paid me.

I too looked at other options, but the new tax law tilted the economics way in favor of the Bolt. Also the big Bolt plus is active battery cooling. So I am waiting until January to take delivery and using my gasser in the meantime.

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Unless you are planning on taking long trips, active battery cooling isn't very useful in Connecticut.

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You'll probably want to get it just in case you decide you want to sell the Leaf in a different market.

BeyondBeLeaf said:

WetEV said:

Unless you are planning on taking long trips, active battery cooling isn't very useful in Connecticut.

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You'll probably want to get it just in case you decide you want to sell the Leaf in a different market.

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Planning on selling a used car a thousand miles away seems like a bad idea, at least usually.

The real problem with passive battery cooling is that Tesla didn't use it. And that's an unforgivable sin.

Comments regarding a few recent posts:

1. My 2019 SL Plus has light gray perforated leather seats. Did Nissan eliminate the perforations (ventilation) for 2022?
2. The Bolt is too small for my needs, but it should be a good car.
3. I don't take a lot of long trips that require multiple quick charging sessions per day so I don't need active battery cooling. I prefer the simplicity of the LEAF battery design. I only have 22 DCQC charge counts after 3 years and 52,000 miles.
4. I was at the dealer today for the annual battery test and was talking to a salesman. New LEAFs are selling before they even receive them. He really tried to get me to talk trade (order one with features I want and wait for delivery) because used prices (and their trade-in allowances) are high right now. I declined--I will keep the one I have.
5. For those who are buying or have already purchased EVs with CCS, make sure you have multiple charging locations identified when traveling. I have seen connector latches broken on CCS plugs of EVgo combination units frequently. I believe the reason is that the connectors (at least the ones on the EVgo combination units) have a long plastic latch and the cars trap that latch when initiating a quick charge session. If someone tries to unplug the connector before stopping the charge and waiting for the car to release the latch, that plastic latch could break easily. A Bolt driver arrived while I was charging at the last EVgo unit I used. I told him I noticed the latch on the CCS connector was broken. We confirmed that his car would not be able to charge with the broken connector latch, so he had to find another station.

GerryAZ said:

I have seen connector latches broken on CCS plugs of EVgo combination units frequently.

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Huh. I wonder if that's a problem unique to CCS1, i.e. CCS2 with the motorised latch may not be as prone to damage.

GerryAZ said:

Comments regarding a few recent posts:

1. My 2019 SL Plus has light gray perforated leather seats. Did Nissan eliminate the perforations (ventilation) for 2022?
2. The Bolt is too small for my needs, but it should be a good car.
3. I don't take a lot of long trips that require multiple quick charging sessions per day so I don't need active battery cooling. I prefer the simplicity of the LEAF battery design. I only have 22 DCQC charge counts after 3 years and 52,000 miles.
4. I was at the dealer today for the annual battery test and was talking to a salesman. New LEAFs are selling before they even receive them. He really tried to get me to talk trade (order one with features I want and wait for delivery) because used prices (and their trade-in allowances) are high right now. I declined--I will keep the one I have.
5. For those who are buying or have already purchased EVs with CCS, make sure you have multiple charging locations identified when traveling. I have seen connector latches broken on CCS plugs of EVgo combination units frequently. I believe the reason is that the connectors (at least the ones on the EVgo combination units) have a long plastic latch and the cars trap that latch when initiating a quick charge session. If someone tries to unplug the connector before stopping the charge and waiting for the car to release the latch, that plastic latch could break easily. A Bolt driver arrived while I was charging at the last EVgo unit I used. I told him I noticed the latch on the CCS connector was broken. We confirmed that his car would not be able to charge with the broken connector latch, so he had to find another station.

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I'm not sure if the Bolt EUV is small in comparison to the Leaf. The passive battery cooling, given that you live in AZ (if that's what your username indicates) I think I'd look for any advanced cooling features if anything for the life of the battery. The way I'm approaching my Blazer order, I have a whole year to decide if I do want to buy it. The Leaf is sufficient for now, although as I stated earlier the option for ventilated seats would be nice. Probably the biggest reason I'm eyeing the Blazer is the fact that it has an advertised range that's about 100 miles more than the Leaf. The new project I'm working on has me doing some driving. While the driving is not outside of 50 miles, it's nice to have the extra range available.

I'm not sure if the Bolt EUV is small in comparison to the Leaf.

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The interior seems almost as large as the Leaf's, because of smaller seats, but with all seats in use the Bolt has nearly no interior cargo space. The Leaf is much larger when it comes to carrying both 4-5 people and cargo.

EDIT: and it's my understanding that the additional space in the EUV is largely used for extra rear leg room, along with a bit more space available in the "cargo" area.

I can hardly believe that you sold your 2017 S for $19K to Carvana. Six months ago I sold my 2017 S to a dealer for $12K, maybe I could have gotten a bit more. They sold it in just a few weeks for just under $16K. So they made a tidy profit. Since I was anxious to get an S+, which were very hard to find, I accepted the deal. Still, to me there is no way I would pay $19K for a 2017 Leaf. That is more than I paid when I bought it new after the $7500 tax credit. New, the S cost me just over $16K after the tax credit.

Used LEAF prices (used car prices in general) are crazy right now. I was in for the annual battery test yesterday (Friday) and was talking to a sales representative while waiting. Based upon our conversation, I am fairly sure they would allow a premium price on trade if I wanted to get something new. They are selling new LEAFs as fast as they get them (generally presold before they arrive by truck). They are also turning used ones around quickly, although they did have a couple on the lot (I did not look at them because I had no reason to).

Regarding battery capacity loss in the Phoenix, AZ climate: I recently read a long-term test report in one of the major automotive magazines about their Tesla Model 3. They quoted capacity loss in their climate (midwestern USA, I think) after two years and about 50,000 miles similar to what I have actually measured after 3 years and a little over 50,000 miles. That somewhat surprised me, but their measurements were based strictly on software readings (probably similar to LEAF Spy) while mine are from both LEAF Spy readings and periodic full discharge tests (charging energy from the wall from shutdown to full charge). The 62 kWh battery in the 2019 is doing much better than the 24 kWh battery in the 2015 which did much better than the original and replacement batteries in the 2011 in this climate. I am probably in the minority, but I like the simplicity of passive cooling and the fact that I can park at my office or the airport for extended time without making sure battery cooling is disabled (if possible).

I need to look at the Bolt EVU and some of the other new EVs for future reference because I have coworkers and friends ask me about EVs periodically.

GerryAZ said:

I can park at my office or the airport for extended time without making sure battery cooling is disabled (if possible).

I need to look at the Bolt EVU and some of the other new EVs for future reference because I have coworkers and friends ask me about EVs periodically.

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I had July to monitor the Bolt pack thermal control behavior. When the car is plugged in, the pack is cooled to about 82F. If not plugged in, active cooling using pack energy is initiated at a pack temperature of 92-ish F. I presume but do not know for sure that the unplugged pack cooling will not deplete the pack SoC below a pre-determined value

Somewhat unrelated, I was surprised to see the Bolt pack temperature increase 10 degrees just from driving into the city and back -- perhaps 30 - 40 miles total. I was expecting less increase from the large thermal mass.