Federal EV Charging Standard Proposal

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SageBrush

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https://www.engadget.com/national-ev-charging-network-standards-proposal-134110706.html

Someone caught on to the miserable state of public charging upkeep outside of the Tesla network. Good for them
And a minimum of four 150 kW chargers at each location is not a bad start.

CCS only
 
SageBrush said:
https://www.engadget.com/national-ev-charging-network-standards-proposal-134110706.html

Someone caught on to the miserable state of public charging upkeep outside of the Tesla network. Good for them
And a minimum of four 150 kW chargers at each location is not a bad start.

CCS only

"Miserable"?

That's an interesting word choice.

I've recently looked at a selection of the Electrify America network. I would describe EA's network as being generally good state.
 
^^ I take it your new found opinion on the subject is based on one trip of 400 miles, where you 'only' found two malfunctioning chargers ?
 
Other important proposed requirements are for max. 50 mile station spacing no more than 1 mile off the highway exit along the corridors, as well as standardization of payment methods, real-time info on station status, availability and pricing, and compatibility with Plug and Charge.

All highly necessary, as is the 97% reliability requirement.
 
GRA said:
Other important proposed requirements are for max. 50 mile station spacing no more than 1 mile off the highway exit along the corridors, as well as standardization of payment methods, real-time info on station status, availability and pricing, and compatibility with Plug and Charge.

All highly necessary, as is the 97% reliability requirement.

I'd suggest a reliability requirement at the location level, not the charger level. This would be both more meaningful to drivers and easier to attain. Something like 99.99% of the time two or more chargers at a location are operational.

I would also like to see a reporting requirement. Knowing in advance that a charger is down is far better than finding out on a dark and stormy night. Something like "at least 90% of the down chargers are reported as such".

On our recent 4000 mile road trip, using EA charging network, there were multiple cases of Plugshare and EA's app reporting one charger down at a location. This isn't a problem, as is like having three rather than four chargers at a location, and I only saw once on this four thousand mile road trip that someone had to wait a few minutes.
 
I find it appalling that there is NO Chademo requirement. The government probably let GM, Ford and VW write the drafts, and f*ck all the Leaf drivers, present and future.
 
LeftieBiker said:
I find it appalling that there is NO Chademo requirement.

Thank goodness CHAdeMO was dumped. The Gov made a wise financial and future looking decision for a change.
Last I read LEAF sales are at ~ 15k a year clip while the Gov is gearing up for 5 - 10 million a year EV sales. Stick a fork in LEAF/CHAdeMO. Bring on LEAF/CCS

As for those few people who bought a CHAdeMO LEAF because it was the 'value choice' and now expect the Gov to massively subsidize them ... :lol:
 
It was Presidential candidate Pat Buchanan who once said, after being harassed at a campaign stop, "Every once in a while you meet an asshole". Plus ça change....
 
Even though I have a Leaf(actually 2) with Chadmo I do agree with Sage, Chadmo is Betamax and CSS is VHS. Sure there might have been advantages to Chadmo just as there were to Betamax but CSS has won the war and we Chadmo people need to realize that. Does it suck for those who purchased a vehicle with Chadmo and really need QC, sure but as early adopters changing standards is just part of the game, it's life. The same thing happened to those who purchased Betamax VCRs, sure you might have had a nice VCR and you could continue to use it as long as it lasted but good luck finding your favorite movie on Beta, there just wasn't the market for distributors to carry prerecorded Beta tapes.
When I purchased my first Leaf back in '14 I admit I didn't know the difference between CSS and Chadmo or if one would win out over the other but the more I got into it, I could see the writing on the wall for Chadmo, owning a Leaf I'd have another Betamax on my hands. Now luckily I'm not reliant on QC'ing to get around and in my older very lacking QC market I still probably see more Chadmo's than CSS but I personally don't think anyone should be forced to continue to install Chadmo if they don't want to or there isn't a market for it, for the most part, we are a free-market country.
Unlike some I'm sure, I do believe the government should be involved in forcing standards, at least up to the point when something new gets wide acceptance, if it weren't for standards each cell phone would still be using a different charging plug, heck even the same mfg. would use different plugs for different models they sold, ala Samsung who back in the day seemed to have a different plug for every model phone they sold, it was very maddening. Of course, Samsung was happy to sell you a new charger with each phone, more money for them but it wasn't good for the consumers or landfills. I still wonder how Apple got away with a phone that used a different plug standard than everyone else and always has but I'm actually kind of happy to see Europe may be putting an end to that, forcing them to use the standard USBC in the near future, of course, I bet they will continue to use their non-standard Lightning connector in the good-ole-USA as our government has too many special interests to force Apple to standardize with everyone else. BTW I own an Apple and like it but aren't happy they use a different plug than the other phones in my household, requiring me to double up my purchases!

I for one kind of look forward to the day when we have only one QC standard(well except for the Elephant in the room, Tesla) which like Apple I don't see how they get away with a non-conforming standard even if it may be better than the rest but it is what it is. It would have been nice if Tesla let other people use their standard but I know why they didn't so I guess we'll be destined to 2 QCs and L1/L2 standards but at least not 3 QC standards and yes I know Tesla has a J1772 adapter to allow them to use everyone else's L1/L2 standard so like my kids, what's yours is yours and what's mine is yours ;)
 
jjeff said:
It would have been nice if Tesla let other people use their standard but I know why they didn't so I guess we'll be destined to 2 QCs and L1/L2 standards but at least not 3 QC standards and yes I know Tesla has a J1772 adapter to allow them to use everyone else's L1/L2 standard so like my kids, what's yours is yours and what's mine is yours ;)

Tesla would "let" others use their QC standard. Read the fine print before you sign.

EU put a stop to that, as did China.
 
^^ I've always thought that the VHS Vs Betamax analogy for CHAdeMo Vs CCS fails because of the Tesla plug. The Tesla plug is so superior to the CCS plug that I see it as

Tesla >>>> CCS >> CHAdeMO

---
The Apple case has actually become a good parallel to Tesla because Apple supports both USB-C and Lightning charging. Lightning based is faster and has a nifty magnetic plug but the USB-C is quite good. My home is USB-C only for every electronic device. We have a couple Apple notebook computers and they fit in fine. Now that Tesla is coming out with CCS support the situation is similar: Tesla plug charging is the homegrown tech most owners prefer but Tesla also supports CCS. I think it is a fine approach.

Nissan is welcome to do the same: build their own CHAdeMo network for the 3 people who want it, and also bundle CCS charging with every car via whatever tech solution they choose. Will Nissan do it ? The odds are not looking good :lol:

So yeah, CHAdeMO is yesterday's news, and this forum might be the only place left where people lament its demise and whine at the "unfairness" of it all (read: "unfairness" to them). And as you say, the writing has been on the wall for years. I have no sympathy for those who ignored the obvious to save a few dollars or get a pet LEAF feature.

---
I want to be clear about one point though: I own a CHAdeMO LEAF and there is a CHAdeMO adapter for Tesla in my garage. There is no personal gain for me by watching CHAdeMO exit stage left but I care a lot more about the accelerated transition to clean transport than any inconvenience I encounter with my LEAF or future Tesla. I want CHAdeMO gone because it is a boondoggle for the transition. If Nissan wants to continue manufacturing L2 LEAFs I say let them, but pleas for massive Gov support to give them crappy L3 abilities should fall on deaf ears.
 
I was just wondering about CCS conversion kits for the Leaf? There may have been a post about this, and I may have missed it. If there was a option to swap out my CHAdeMO /J1772 board for a CCS/J1772 board, I'd do it without even thinking twice about it.

I also like that the Federal EV Charging Standard Proposal talks about a simple pay. I'd love it if I didn't have to "sign-in" to an app AND then use my credit card to start a public charge. Sometimes, I've found myself installing yet another silly app on my mobile, in inclement weather, just to be able to charge my car. This just adds another 10-15 minutes to get the car charged up.

When ICE cars go to a gas station, they just put the nozzle in, tap the credit card on the pump, then pump in the gas. Back on the road in 5 minutes. Why can't EV cars do the same? (maybe a bit longer to charge, but at least you're not wasting time just trying to get the charger to start)
 
CanuckEVDriver said:
I was just wondering about CCS conversion kits for the Leaf? There may have been a post about this, and I may have missed it. If there was a option to swap out my CHAdeMO /J1772 board for a CCS/J1772 board, I'd do it without even thinking twice about it.

An adapter isn't realistic, but a conversion is. Not in North America as far as I know, but in Europe.

https://www.muxsan.com/English/products.html#ccs-upgrade


Dala is working on such a conversion as well. I recall seeing something in this board, but here are a few pointers:

https://www.diyelectriccar.com/threads/nissan-leaf-ccs-upgrade-diy-how-to.205859/

https://github.com/dalathegreat/Nissan-LEAF-CCS/wiki


This is an extensive modification to the car, expect it to be something that an EV shop might provide... once Dala has all the details working, or muxsan expands to North America.
 
See this post for a more detailed discussion.

https://www.mynissanleaf.com/viewtopic.php?t=32772

Definitely not a simple undertaking...

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i-PCe-cD5d4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6eBOARmsLHc
 
Agreed that Chademo outside of Japan and a few other countries is like betamax. Also agree it isn't about being the better standard, it's about gaining coalition for supporting the standard.

But tapes were sold and rented for years past the end of the standard wars. Similarly, i am hoping for continued Chademo support (total locations are still increasing in the US) for another 4-5 years. After that, I will care a bit less and likely have moved on with one of the 2 Pluses.
 
DougWantsALeaf said:
Agreed that Chademo outside of Japan and a few other countries is like betamax.

Only if you think heavy, bulky, and dog slow are the pinnacles of achievement.
 
CanuckEVDriver said:
... When ICE cars go to a gas station, they just put the nozzle in, tap the credit card on the pump, then pump in the gas. Back on the road in 5 minutes. Why can't EV cars do the same?...

I would guess that part of the reason is that gas stations usually have at least an employee onsite and fairly regular traffic whereas chargers tend to be unattended and in some instances may be much less frequented. This would make them more vulnerable to hardware hackers (piggyback card readers, etc).
 
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