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Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Fri Jan 21, 2022 9:10 pm
by gcrouse
LeftieBiker wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 1:26 pm The 30kwh packs are a different animal from both the earlier 24kwh batteries and the later 40kwh units. Many of them degrade quickly, but many of them also don't, especially in cooler climates. The fact that you have an actual, adjusted SOH in the eighties means that you have one of the better ones. The long battery warranty on the battery means that if you move to a Hot climate and it starts to shed bars more quickly, you will very likely get a new battery in a few years. As it is, you have a range that most 24kwh Leaf owners would love to have.
I think the 30kwh battery is the one thing I have a love hate relationship with on my 2016 SL. (bought April 2017 - manufactured 02/16). Around February of last year it started getting a bit quirky. Prior to 2019 I had charged almost exclusively with a AV TurboCord at home at old house with a little L1 at friends house and some L2 out and about. Around probably February of last year the Eaton L2 a block from my house would start throwing faults more or less 15 minutes after starting a charge and then at random points which will clear fine with me walking back to reset and then the outlets I had previously done L1 with at my buddy's house quit charging L1. They were ungrounded so in theory it never should have charged L1 on them anyway but there's an outlet near his garage opener that works for some reason. Also started getting some of the cold weather turtle mode around the 27-47% SoC too so i imagine one of the cells somewhere is going to go bad in the next few years but when the dealer looked it over it had been on their L2 for a bit prior to them tearing into it. Otherwise I'm at 10 bars and tracking pretty good against Mark Larson's battery degradation chart that would say i probably won't have a replacement under warranty.

I've since switched to charing L1 primarily at home and doing more QC when I head to my buddy's place so we don't have to play the car shuffle when I'm there so I'll be interested to see what the annual battery report says come April. Financially it's a bit of a slow burn stressor since if I can get the pack replaced under warranty with a 40kwh one I'm thinking I'll probably have the car til about 2035 but if not it'll be a lot of planning on whether i want to bite the bullet on a new pack out of pocket through Nissan or figuring out what still qualifies for the $7500 tax credit in my price range and aiming to purchase before IL either reduces the $4k EV incentive or runs out of money for it.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 3:27 pm
by Dyno1
I was reading some of your tips LeftieBiker and came across the range map with the white circles. The smaller distance white circle was pretty much bang on with the amount of range left on the battery, that will be a huge help when trying to see how much is left on the charge. Thanks!

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Sat Jan 22, 2022 4:10 pm
by LeftieBiker
You're welcome. Many if not most of those tips were discovered or first posted by others here. I know that the more accurate range estimator was posted by someone else - who I can't remember. I think that my big tip was using "Floor-only Defrost" in order to utilize the Partial/Automatic Recirculate feature.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 7:49 am
by DaveinOlyWA
Dyno1 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 10:02 am I have a 2017 Leaf SV I picked up in November, it has 11 bars. Using Leaf Spy it shows the current SOH at 82.19 %. Just curious if that's bad, good or average for a vehicle of that age with just over 50,000kms on it. It had the BMS update done in 2018, according to Nissan's records. When I got it , the SOH was 82.64%, then went up to 82.75%, then 82.32 % and now 82.19%. Should I be concerned or am I over thinking this? The previous owner did have a cell replaced under warranty in 2019. Will the outside temperature affect the SOH?
Bad. Should be better but you got what you got and for the most part, its probably average.

Problem with short range EVs is too few options for charge management. You want to minimize time above 80% SOC or below 10% SOC (by the dash 10% is actually about 20% SOC BTW...) as Lithium prefers to live in the middle. But the limited range means frequently charging to 100% for actual need or more commonly..."just in case" so the previous owner probably didn't use optimal charge management practices.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 8:16 am
by LeftieBiker
Bad. Should be better but you got what you got and for the most part, its probably average.
I think that was Dave was trying to say, in a less than ideal way, was that you have an average 30kwh Pack. An average degradation of 4.5% a year isn't terrible. I suspect that the previous owner treated the battery badly, by letting it sit 100% charged for long periods. You should be able to improve on that.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Sun Jan 23, 2022 10:20 am
by HerdingElectrons
Dyno1 wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 3:05 pm Question regarding charging. I do have a level 2 charger at home, but would I be better charging at level 1 if I have the time to charge that way? Is level 1 charging easier on the battery than level 2 ? Or is it a wash since level 1 takes longer at a lower charge rate and level 2 is a higher charge rate but for a fair amount shorter charge time?
LeftieBiker wrote: L-1 can be better in the hottest weather and in the coldest (because it can help keep the battery warm), but for all other uses L-2 is as good as or better for the car.
In my opinion the roughly 10% additional losses of L1 charging relative to L2 charging has compelled me to buy this EVSE:
https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B08FMBRCXX?psc=1

This will allow me to L2 charge my car at 10A/240 aka about 2400 watts less charger losses vs 28A/240 aka 6700 watts so I keep the 240V efficiency and I charge roughly dbl the rate of L1 & over time the efficiency savings will pay for the secondary EVSE and presumably the subsequent lower charging 'C' rate will be better for the cells longevity.

Also I can charge the with the lower output EVSE during the hottest summer months exclusively to lower the heat soaking of the pack when my region hits 100-112F intermittently

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 8:45 am
by Dyno1
That’s not good to hear but I’ll do what I can to minimize battery degradation. According to the seller they only charged to 80% , so I am thinking the first owner before it was imported may have not taken the best care of battery. I rarely charge over 80% and never go below 20%. I don’t need to charge to 100% to get to work, even at 80% I can make the round trip to my furthest work location . As for charging , am I better to charge right away when I get to work or later so the battery has time to cool down a bit . Right now the temperature is pretty cool out , about 2-4 Celsius. Also can I expect to see an increase in battery range once the weather warms up and what gains can I expect if there is a gain .

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:33 pm
by goldbrick
You will certainly see a range increase when the temps warm up. It's hard to say exactly how much since it depends on the temperature difference and the particular battery but 20% is a very rough estimate.

I notice the effect of my battery warming up on my commute to work. My car often takes about 1/2 the SOC% to get to work as to come home. There is a small elevation difference and sometimes the wind plays a small role but I've attributed most of the difference to the fact that the battery warms up on my way to work after being cool all night. During the day, it stays warm so there isn't the same effect on the way home.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Tue Jan 25, 2022 4:04 pm
by gcrouse
goldbrick wrote: Tue Jan 25, 2022 1:33 pm You will certainly see a range increase when the temps warm up. It's hard to say exactly how much since it depends on the temperature difference and the particular battery but 20% is a very rough estimate.
For mine i would go as far as 30-40% reduction on the coldest days here in NW IL - but that's with trips where kids are in the car so I'm running the heat at 60 for them since they are in boosters (no benefit from seat warmer) That's about a 50 mile round trip with some hills where i really notice the range reduction since almost all but one other trip i take is in town.

Re: Average Battery decline ?

Posted: Wed Jan 26, 2022 4:50 am
by dmacarthur
For mine i would go as far as 30-40% reduction on the coldest days here in NW IL - but that's with trips where kids are in the car so I'm running the heat at 60 for them since they are in boosters (no benefit from seat warmer) That's about a 50 mile round trip with some hills where i really notice the range reduction since almost all but one other trip i take is in town.
Completely agree- in cold weather below maybe 5 degrees F 30-40% reduction is a better estimate. Plan ahead!