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mwalsh
Posts: 9765
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

Hello, all! Long time, no visit (June 2020 was the last time, so far as I can tell).

Need a bit of help trying to decide what to do with my leaf. Here are my circumstances:

As you can see from my signature, 18 months ago (or perhaps even more than that) I was at 87,000 miles on the odometer. Today I am at 87,142. That's right, I've driven my LEAF 142 miles since the last time I updated my signature (which could well have even earlier than my last post here).

What has happened? Well, like many, I began working from home in March 2020 and I haven't been to the office since. When work started insisting on a return to the office environment in November 2020 (bear in mind - no vaccines yet), that and other events in my life around the same time made me decide to leave the job altogether and take early retirement.

My wife also had enough (non-Covid19 related) health issues in fall of 2020 that we decided she would no longer drive her 2013 Volt. She's doing quite a bit better now, thanks for asking, but at the end of the day she didn't really want to drive anymore, what with having me available to chauffeur and all. After she quit driving, I decided that the Volt was the more practical car to keep licensed and insured.

As a result, yes, I've put only a handful of miles on the LEAF in the last couple of years. It's currently on non-op with the DMV and is not insured. Though, since our community (technically) has private roads, I have been driving it slowly and carefully around the neighborhood the long way to go get our mail, just to make it feel a little bit loved. I probably would be better to walk and get the excessive myself, but exercising the LEAF is my excuse not to. LOL!

Also worth mentioning, as I offer the various options, is that my LEAF still has 11 bars on the 2015 warranty replacement pack, with a range of probably 70-75 miles, and that we are down to about 29 EV miles from the Volt when fully charged, which is more than adequate for 95% of our daily driving. Also worth mentioning is that the Volt only has 34,000 miles on the odometer and we need to use gas in it probably to the tune of around 5-6 gallons annually.

So, the choices as I see them are threefold. And I list them here in order of preference:

1) Sell the Volt and keep the LEAF. If I keep the LEAF, I’d like to investigate upgrading the battery pack with a 62KwH pack from a wrecked newer model. There really isn’t anything wrong with my LEAF other than the roof needing paint or wrapping (bad clear coat). I’d also like to try and figure out a way to keep and use my 2015 pack for home energy storage on my solar system. Or, I suppose, I could sell it. I know this upgrade would cost quite a bit, but there still is an emotional attachment to my LEAF and if I could get it to 200+miles of range, it would certainly enhance it's practicality.

2) Sell both the LEAF and the Volt and put the money towards a gently used Tesla Model S with longer range (70D, 85D, etc…). Preferably one with free lifetime supercharging.

3) Sell the LEAF and keep the Volt. This is the most boring option, but obviously also the cheapest and maybe the easiest.

Thoughts and opinions, please?
Last edited by mwalsh on Sat Jan 15, 2022 10:15 am, edited 1 time in total.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 87,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18848
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

I suggest option D. ;) Sell the Volt, keep the Leaf, but upgrade to a 40kw pack from a salvage car. You clearly don't need more than 120-150 miles of range, and the 40kwh is much easier fit in your Leaf. It will also not feel like you are carrying a full load of people or cargo, as the 62kwh pack likely would. Finally, it is, as I understand it, easier to find 40kwh packs.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
opencar
Posts: 179
Joined: Thu Aug 19, 2010 7:31 am
Delivery Date: 01 Jun 2011
Location: San Diego Coastal

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

good to hear from an original member! i've still got mine @ 97K mi. but the degraded range puts a big crimp on usability for sure. i'd vote to sell both and get the Tesla. it'll renew your enthusiasm for driving EV again - it definitely did for me!
1st bar- 22K, 27mo, Ah=55.29
2nd- 33K, 37mo, Ah=51.54
3rd- 41K, 46mo, Ah=47.47
4th- 49K, 53mo, Ah=43.28
Warranty Lizard- 50K, Oct'15
1st bar- 34K, 44mo, Ah=55.25, Jun'19
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jlv
Moderator
Posts: 2005
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

mwalsh wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:30 am Preferably one with free lifetime supercharging.
FWIW, but I'm not convinced it's worth significantly that much. That is, as long as Tesla keeps SuperCharging from being a profit center.

Both of my Tesla cars have free unlimited SuC. You don't want to use SuperCharging for day-to-day charging, and for trips it ends up not being a significant cost.

E.g., my Model X just hit 37000 miles. From TeslaFi.com, this is the charging summary for AC and DC for the life of the car:
suc.JPG
Under AC, the "cost" is all from charging at home - I've never used a paid Level 2 anywhere. The "savings" is all from using free Level 2s. Prior to my pandemic and then my retirement (a year ago), the X was charged more than half the time at the office for free.

Under SuC, about 1000kWh of charging is from doing so at local shopping -- there are nearby SuC at two of the shopping centers we frequent. (so much for me saying not to use SuC for day-to-day charging; we only used those SuC because it is free for us; otherwise, we wouldn't have)

So in 3 years we've used under $1200 in SuC, and nearly 20% of that is from "use it because it's free" sessions rather than road trips.
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ICE free since '18 / over 129K 100% BEV miles since '14
LEAF 2013 SL (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 53K mi, repaired! :D)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 42K mi)
8.9kW Solar PV and 2x Powerwall
SageBrush
Posts: 7310
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

jlv wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 8:42 am FWIW, but I'm not convinced it's worth significantly that much.
I came to same conclusion for us, although someone who takes lots of trips away from home might come to a different conclusion. Those 'free Supercharging for lifetime' deals cost $2,000. If you figure the Supercharger electricity costs 10¢ a mile, you have to use the car 20,000 trip miles just to break even, and that is before you include opportunity costs of approximately 2000(1.05)^10 - 2000 = 1,250. So the real cost to buy into the free Supercharging was about $3,250 over 10 years, or about 3,250 trip miles per year.

People overpay to get something 'free'
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
User avatar
jlv
Moderator
Posts: 2005
Joined: Thu Apr 24, 2014 6:08 pm
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2014
Leaf Number: 424487
Location: Massachusetts

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

SageBrush wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 9:00 am Those 'free Supercharging for lifetime' deals cost $2,000.
That was early on (it was $3K IIRC). Sometime around 2016 it was simply included in the price of the Model S or X. I bought our Model S at the time they first announced that FUSC was going away. I bought our Model X at the time Tesla announced FUSC was going away for the third time (when it actually did).

For us, those 3700kWh of non-local SuC represent about 10000 miles of trip travel (370 Wh/mi or 2.7 mi/Wh avg on the highway), or about 3333 mi/yr.
ICE free since '18 / over 129K 100% BEV miles since '14
LEAF 2013 SL (mfg 12/13, leased 4/14, bought 5/17, sold 11/18, 34K mi, AHr 58, SOH 87%)
Tesla S 75D (3/17, 53K mi, repaired! :D)
Tesla X 100D (12/18, 42K mi)
8.9kW Solar PV and 2x Powerwall
User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9765
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

Something I forgot to mention - I've also been toying with the idea of converting one of my classic Minis to EV. So I could theoretically split my 2015 pack and use about half of it for solar storage and the balance to make a local runabout EV out of the Mini.

If I remember my measurements from a while I go, i think it's like 12 modules fit comfortably in the boot (trunk) of the Mini without even thinking of cramming any in elsewhere. And the Mini costs quite a bit less to tax ($80) and insure ($300) because it's old as dirt and qualifies for collectible/limited use insurance via a company like Hagerty.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 87,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18848
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

I'm sure that I've read of Leaf drivetrains being used for Mini conversions. Would you be happy with the result, as opposed to upgrading the Leaf?
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
User avatar
mwalsh
Posts: 9765
Joined: Thu Apr 22, 2010 10:10 am
Delivery Date: 05 Jan 2011
Leaf Number: 0213
Location: Garden Grove, CA

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

LeftieBiker wrote: Sat Jan 15, 2022 3:36 pm I'm sure that I've read of Leaf drivetrains being used for Mini conversions. Would you be happy with the result, as opposed to upgrading the Leaf?
This would be as well as. Upgrade the LEAF and use my existing 24kWh pack for the Mini and some solar storage.
2011 Blue Ocean SL with 87,000 miles
2015 pack on 12/30/15
Tinted windows
Bosch AGM 12v
Ecopia 422+ tires
L1 EVSE upgrade
FIAMM horns
Superbright LED lighting
2013 sun visors
LED shifter
Heated seats
GT-R map lamp lenses
Altima illuminated door switches
GerryAZ
Gold Member
Posts: 3294
Joined: Mon Nov 22, 2010 6:47 pm
Delivery Date: 12 Jun 2011
Location: Phoenix, AZ

Re: Need help deciding the future of my LEAF.

You mentioned some health problems so I would look at other vehicle options carefully before giving up on the LEAF. The LEAF is easy to get in/out and other electric cars I looked at were more difficult. Your 2011 has some features missing on later cars, but the heating system takes more energy than the heat pumps. I would probably still be driving my 2011 if it had not met its untimely demise (probably with a retrofitted 40 kWh battery by now). One disadvantage to the 2011 is that the 3.3 kW charger would require longer charging times with a retrofit 40 kWh or 62 kWh battery than newer cars. Does the Volt have technical support on user forums like the LEAF and Tesla?
Gerry
Silver LEAF 2011 SL rear ended (totaled) by in-attentive driver 1/4/2015 at 50,422 miles
Silver LEAF 2015 SL purchased 2/7/2015; traded 8/10/2019 at 82,436 miles
White LEAF 2019 SL Plus purchased 8/10/2019

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