SageBrush
Posts: 7305
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

johnlocke wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:39 pm How do you get down to 2 cents/KWH?
My array is also a DIY. I ended up paying 80.2¢ a watt after 26% federal and 10% state tax credits, not including amortization. PVWatts estimates 1.7 kWh/year production per STC watt for my installation, so in my case a watt is about 50 kWh lifetime generation

Figuring financing costs is a tricky, YMMV business. I paid for the PV out of pocket with assets I hold as ~ inflation protected cash. So in my specific case, my cost of money is zero and my REAL kWh cost is closer to 1.5¢ a kWh. I wrote 2¢ a kWh for those people that finance. Where state incentives are not available but the climate is similar to mine and financing is used, 2.2¢ a kWh sounds about right, not too far from what you paid.
Last edited by SageBrush on Sun Feb 06, 2022 7:32 am, edited 5 times in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
rogersleaf
Posts: 376
Joined: Sun May 18, 2014 7:50 pm
Delivery Date: 22 Mar 2019
Leaf Number: 307726
Location: Kent, Ohio

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:57 am The battery degradation is the part that worries me long term. In the short term, it's how long it takes to charge the battery. I'm also a little disappointed with the cost per mile. I think I've logged about 900 miles thus far and the charging station I've been using has already charged me about $120 since I started charging. My full-sized Titan would give me about 450 miles in range for about $80, so I'm not seeing the kind of savings that I had hoped I would.
Your costing observation is not unique. DCFC has never worked out for me from a cost perspective (unless free). In my case, it's rare that I even attempt driving my LEAF beyond it's single-charge range. On the rare occasions I have, both the reliability and costs of DCFC have been a huge disappointment.

Example... This past December I used my LEAF for simple 120 mile trip one-way, and then 120 mile return trip the same day. That required 2 DCFC sessions. Left home pre-heated @ 100% SOC from home L2 charging, 1 DCFC on the outbound (arrived on fumes), 2nd on the homebound at same station, and arrived home @ 15% SOC. I used EA for the DCFC for the basic reason it was my only choice, but fortunately was charged by the KWh (not by connection time as that would have been another costing disaster). Up front, the costing didn't look too bad at roughly $10-12 for each session. When my January credit card statement arrived, the account was auto-dinged 4 times @ $10/each to load & reload as needed to fulfill EA's account requirements. Then factor in the ~65KWh estimated from the 2 home L2's the LEAF took to prep & recover at another $8-9 overall combined. So in retrospect, it would have been cheaper to park the LEAF and use my Ridgeline at $35 in fuel, 5-minute top-off time, and actually included the road taxes in the cost.

Just wait until all those KW-hogging EV pickup trucks hit the market with batteries 3-4 times the capacity of a LEAF and lucky to deliver double the range (on a good day, downhill, with a strong tail wind). And those mostly new to having an EV owners then discover the daily power consumption & battery capacity is beyond what their common residential electric supply can support on L2 charging over reasonable time so they go looking for a 150KW DCFC to get through their day. That's going to be a major reality check.
2014 SV - Brilliant Silver - returned 1/2017 at end of lease.
2019 SL - White - w/Tech Package
SageBrush
Posts: 7305
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

rogersleaf wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 2:33 am
Example...
Your accounting is way off.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
BeyondBeLeaf
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:30 am
Delivery Date: 28 Dec 2021

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

OldManCan wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 12:03 pm
BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:57 am The battery degradation is the part that worries me long term. In the short term, it's how long it takes to charge the battery. I'm also a little disappointed with the cost per mile. I think I've logged about 900 miles thus far and the charging station I've been using has already charged me about $120 since I started charging. My full-sized Titan would give me about 450 miles in range for about $80, so I'm not seeing the kind of savings that I had hoped I would.
I think the ROI for EVs will be highest if you can charge at home, especially if your utility provides lower rates for super off peak hours (ie midnight to 9am etc). I almost exclusively charge at home and my total estimated cost of charging for 3900 miles of driving is about $80 so far. I had 3 DCFC charges so far all on EvGO which provides a $250 credit to all new LEAF owners. Did you receive yours? That might help a little too.

I remember reading something about getting a few hundred towards a certain brand of charging station, but I didn't pursue it. My complex has SemaConnect as their charging stations which isn't very reliable and is where I've done most of my charging. I tried a Nissan dealership to try their "fast charging" station but it didn't seem to charge very fast. The SemaConnect station is supposed to charge $1 per hour for the first 4 hours and then $3 for every additional hour. I'd love to plug in for just 4 hours but I like to let the battery run down as far as possible before I recharge as I figure that might help with battery life. The other thing I notice is that once I get past about 90%, it takes forever for the last few percentage points to charge. Oh well, I'll keep making variation changes on the charging.
johnlocke
Posts: 821
Joined: Fri Jan 08, 2016 3:47 pm
Delivery Date: 27 Oct 2022

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

SageBrush wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:50 pm
johnlocke wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 11:39 pm How do you get down to 2 cents/KWH?
My array is also a DIY. I ended up paying 80.2¢ a watt after 26% federal and 10% state tax credits, not including amortization. PVWatts estimates 1.7 kWh/year production per STC watt for my installation, so in my case a watt is about 50 kWh lifetime generation

Figuring financing costs is a tricky, YMMV business. I paid for the PV out of pocket with assets I hold as ~ inflation protected cash. So in my specific case, my cost of money is zero and my REAL kWh cost is closer to 1.5¢ a kWh. I wrote 2¢ a kWh for those people that finance. Where state incentives are not available but the climate is similar to mine and financing is used, 2.2¢ a kWh sounds about right, not too far from what you paid.
The extra state tax credits make a substantial difference. I live in an area that gets nearly as much sun as Death Valley but I do have some shading issues from tall trees in the winter. My annual production is 29000 KWH from 18 KW of panels. It's a lot of power but I'm 90% solar at this point. the wife's car is ICE and the backup heat, stove, and backup generator are propane powered. Next time around I'll convert to electric backup heat. Just added 84KWH of battery backup (courtesy of SDG&E) so the generator is redundant for the most part. Need to get the wife to convert to electric but she likes her Subaru Outback. I won't give up the gas stove though.
2022 SV+ 10/22
2016 SL, New battery at 45K mi. Crashed at 95K mi. 9/22
Jamul, CA
San Diego East County
BeyondBeLeaf
Posts: 38
Joined: Wed Dec 29, 2021 9:30 am
Delivery Date: 28 Dec 2021

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

Triggerhappy007 wrote: Sat Feb 05, 2022 3:27 pm
BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Fri Feb 04, 2022 11:57 am I'm also a little disappointed with the cost per mile. I think I've logged about 900 miles thus far and the charging station I've been using has already charged me about $120 since I started charging. My full-sized Titan would give me about 450 miles in range for about $80, so I'm not seeing the kind of savings that I had hoped I would.
What have your charging habits been? You said in the other post that, "My complex charges $1 per hour for the first 4 hours and $2 for hours after 4." If you can charge 4 hours at a time, it's $0.17/kWh. Driving 900 miles should only cost you about $50. Maybe you can set your car's charging schedule to stop 3:50 from now?
I like to let it go down as low as possible and allow for a complete charge. Only once have I disconnected the charging before it got to 100% and that was when it was sitting at 98% and stated that it had another hour to charge. I might have to stop trying to let it charge to 100% as I think that's what's costing me more to charge.
DougWantsALeaf
Posts: 3271
Joined: Fri May 10, 2013 8:21 pm
Delivery Date: 18 May 2013
Leaf Number: 407811
Location: Chicago North Side

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

I have seen a couple reports of Leaf supplies increasing in some areas. Chip shortage/Car bubble ending?
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh
SageBrush
Posts: 7305
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

johnlocke wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:05 am The extra state tax credits make a substantial difference.
Not as much as you might imagine because double dipping is disallowed. The cost after credits is 0.74*0.9, so about a 33% reduction and not 36%.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
Triggerhappy007
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

BeyondBeLeaf wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 11:36 am
I like to let it go down as low as possible and allow for a complete charge. Only once have I disconnected the charging before it got to 100% and that was when it was sitting at 98% and stated that it had another hour to charge. I might have to stop trying to let it charge to 100% as I think that's what's costing me more to charge.
Yeah, that's costing you money. For Level 2, it ramps down around 90-95% I think.
2022 Mustang Mach-E Select RWD
2022 Leaf Plus SV White/Black-Sold
Triggerhappy007
Posts: 262
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 8:08 pm
Delivery Date: 01 Jan 2019

Re: Are there 2022 leafs for sale in the US?

DougWantsALeaf wrote: Sun Feb 06, 2022 12:17 pm I have seen a couple reports of Leaf supplies increasing in some areas. Chip shortage/Car bubble ending?
No, still chip shortages with other companies. They will stop taking orders for the Mach-E on Feb 11th. I think 8 of Ford's plants are on hold for a week or more.

No more shipments of Leafs to the DFW area since December. My BIL bought an SV Plus for $36k OTD last month.
2022 Mustang Mach-E Select RWD
2022 Leaf Plus SV White/Black-Sold

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