Unusually low mileage 2013

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leafamiga

Active member
Joined
Dec 8, 2021
Messages
25
The 2017 I was hoping for got sold, and the other 3016 / 2017 are just more than I want to spend. (Thanks Covid, but 1st-world problem compared to the millions of people that have died from it).

I’m now trying to decide between buying a 2015 leaf with around 90,000 miles for a little over $5000 versus a 2013 with 23,000 miles for $10,000.

Two questions about the low mileage on the 2013.

I have not heard of any kind of hacks that are allowing people to alter the odometer on leafs. Is that a thing to be concerned about ?

Assuming the mileage is real, my next concern is that the car just sat unused for a long time, including possibly sitting for extended periods of time at zero battery. Will the Leafspy app help identify that?

Thanks in advance !
 
Please read the buying guide that I linked in your first topic - it's important. Odometer mileage in an EV is not usually important, unless you are on the edge of a warranty. The health of the battery is what matters, and in the case of a 2013 Leaf, the build date on the driver's side door jamb sticker is very, VERY important. If the car was built before April of 2013, walk away from it - unless the owner can prove that the main battery (NOT the 12 volt accessory battery) was replaced under warranty. The pre-4/2013 build Leafs all have the old, terrible battery chemistry, and the batteries degrade rapidly.

Don't trust the capacity bars on the dash gauge, especially if they read a full 12 bars, as that can be spoofed by a Battery Management System (BMS) reset. You need to be using the LeafSpy Pro app, with a suitable OBDII port reader like the one in my signature, to check the battery health - especially the "SOH" (state of health) number. Beware of 12 bars in older Leafs again, though, as a recent BMS reset can still fool LeafSpy. You'd need to do either a range test or a charge capacity test in that case.
 
leafamiga said:
I have not heard of any kind of hacks that are allowing people to alter the odometer on leafs. Is that a thing to be concerned about ?

Assuming the mileage is real, my next concern is that the car just sat unused for a long time

You have the wrong set of concerns. Skip a salvage title or a repaired LEAF after a serious accident, then:

#1, #2, #3, #4, and #5 are the health (capacity) of the traction battery. The car usage history might give you a hint about the battery but in the end you have to **know**, first by looking at capacity bars and perhaps later by checking with LeafSpy or if in doubt by a range or charging test.

A crappy 12v battery is # 44
 
No, I wasn’t at all talking about the 12 V battery. I realize that is not a great significance

It’s a tough situation, because dealers aren’t gonna let you do these long drives or charge tests.

(These older leafs tend to be at independent dealers, at least in my area. If they were a Nissan dealerships perhaps they would be more open to the more extensive test, but these little places are not)

Thanks.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Please read the buying guide that I linked in your first topic - it's important. Odometer mileage in an EV is not usually important, unless you are on the edge of a warranty. The health of the battery is what matters, and in the case of a 2013 Leaf, the build date on the driver's side door jamb sticker is very, VERY important. If the car was built before April of 2013, walk away from it - unless the owner can prove that the main battery (NOT the 12 volt accessory battery) was replaced under warranty. The pre-4/2013 build Leafs all have the old, terrible battery chemistry, and the batteries degrade rapidly.

Don't trust the capacity bars on the dash gauge, especially if they read a full 12 bars, as that can be spoofed by a Battery Management System (BMS) reset. You need to be using the LeafSpy Pro app, with a suitable OBDII port reader like the one in my signature, to check the battery health - especially the "SOH" (state of health) number. Beware of 12 bars in older Leafs again, though, as a recent BMS reset can still fool LeafSpy. You'd need to do either a range test or a charge capacity test in that case.


I did read the first post. It was very helpful. Yeah, I did notice the points about the manufacture date, and this one I’m looking at is after that date. I’m going to take Leafspy with me.

Is 11 bars as suspicious as 12 ? I mean, if a BMS reset always sets it to 12 and they’ve only had the car a couple weeks, it would not have dropped to 11 already, would it have?
 
leafamiga said:
It’s a tough situation, because dealers aren’t gonna let you do these long drives or charge tests.
Whether a short-ish charge test (30 - 45 minutes) or a short-ish drive (10 miles), it is easy to get a good estimate of battery capacity with LeafSpy:

Just note the change in SoC to the change in kWh remaining from whatever charging/discharging you are doing.
 
Is 11 bars as suspicious as 12 ? I mean, if a BMS reset always sets it to 12 and they’ve only had the car a couple weeks, it would not have dropped to 11 already, would it have?

11 bars is less suspicious, because it's the expected amount of degradation. If the car has changed hands recently, do a range test. Even 5 miles can be enough if you do it carefully, trying to drive almost all of those miles at about 50-55MPH, with no big up- or down-hills.
 
LeftieBiker said:
Is 11 bars as suspicious as 12 ? I mean, if a BMS reset always sets it to 12 and they’ve only had the car a couple weeks, it would not have dropped to 11 already, would it have?

11 bars is less suspicious, because it's the expected amount of degradation. If the car has changed hands recently, do a range test. Even 5 miles can be enough if you do it carefully, trying to drive almost all of those miles at about 50-55MPH, with no big up- or down-hills.

11 bars in an 8 year old LEAF is about as good as it gets. My car is proof that it exists but it is not typical. Typical would be 9 - 10 bars.

To answer OP's question about return to accuracy after a reset: it depends on use. A car used a lot will recalibrate quicker. So perhaps as soon as one month, to as slow as 6 months.
 
11 bars in an 8 year old LEAF is about as good as it gets. My car is proof that it exists but it is not typical. Typical would be 9 - 10 bars.

The "Wolf" packs can be quite tough and resistant to degradation - it depends on how hot they get. The above is what I'd expect from a car in a warmer but not Hot climate. Leafs with the Wolf pack that don't see much heat can easily have 11 bars now, or even (barely) 12.
 
Thanks all for your replies.

I have narrowed it down to a 2015 Leaf S with 45k miles and 11 bars for $10,400, and a 2013 Leaf S (built 10/2013) with 23k miles but only 8 bars for $9k. (The 2015 has always resides in SoCal, so moderate weather)

The 2015 seems like the better way to go for sure. Gonna make the 70mile drive tomorrow and plug my ODB in.
 
leafamiga said:
I have narrowed it down to a 2015 Leaf S with 45k miles and 11 bars for $10,400, and a 2013 Leaf S (built 10/2013) with 23k miles but only 8 bars for $9k. (The 2015 has always resides in SoCal, so moderate weather)

The 2015 seems like the better way to go for sure.
Easily the better of those two choices, all else being equal.

But if you have the time, try to buy a 30 kWh LEAF. The extra 3 years of warranty (presuming miles does not come first) and larger pack is great value.
 
Yes, forget the 2013. Low mileage is the norm with Leafs, not a rarity. There are enough issues with the 2013 Leaf that having 8 bars makes it worth no more than about $5k - if that.
 
SageBrush said:
leafamiga said:
I have narrowed it down to a 2015 Leaf S with 45k miles and 11 bars for $10,400, and a 2013 Leaf S (built 10/2013) with 23k miles but only 8 bars for $9k. (The 2015 has always resides in SoCal, so moderate weather)

The 2015 seems like the better way to go for sure.
Easily the better of those two choices, all else being equal.

But if you have the time, try to buy a 30 kWh LEAF. The extra 3 years of warranty (presuming miles does not come first) and larger pack is great value.

Hi Sagebrush. Thanks for your reply. Funny thing, I just saw your info at the bottom of the post. I’m actually buying the leaf possibly as a placeholder. I’m considering selling my model three which I bought in September 2018 so that I can get a Kia EV6 and I wouldn’t even consider it except for the wacky values of used cars. But that’s why I don’t wanna spend extra money order 30 kW version

Even funnier thing, I actually owned a leaf from 2015 to 2018, and when I started my search last week I actually saw my very car for sale and wanted to buy it but it disappeared in one day. So crazy to think that I’m about an hour away from paying 13k for essentially the identical car that I sold three years ago for 9k, , except this one is three years older than mine was !!

I still haven’t decided if I’m gonna sell my Model3 or not, but if not this will become the wife’s daily driver instead of the gas hog minivan, and then she will either buy an ev6 or a Toyota Bzr or some other EV out of the batch of new models coming out next year. (I’m literally putting down reservations on anything that comes up., Aside from like the super high-end Kia first edition which had reservations open up back in May. So far I have put down reservation money for the Nissan Ariya and I’ll definitely put down a reservation for the Toyota Kia and Hyundai. They’re all fully refundable so I figure no loss.
 
New on here trying to ask LeftieBiker a question regarding the jamb sticker and date it was built. You said before April 2013 avoid. What about if it’s right at April 2013? Good battery?
 
April should be ok. We have seen one or two with April build stickers that I suspect were built on or near April 1st that had bad batteries, but the great majority have been fine - I drove one for 5 years, and turned it in with 12 bars. At this point, you should be able to easily spot a bad 2013 battery, because it will have lost more than 1 or 2 capacity bars. I think that Carfax can tell you when in April it was built, IIRC.
 
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