End of lease dealer shenanigans

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passepartout

Member
Joined
Oct 24, 2014
Messages
8
My 2018 SV with 30k miles lease ends Nov 23. The buyout price is $12990. With the pandemic and chip shortage pushing up used car prices, Edmund's estimates a private sale value of $17500. So I have a bit of equity in the car. Looking at my options I could, buy the car and resell, sell it to a third party, or trade it in to unlock the equity in my favor.

1. Dealer one quoted me a buyout of $16,900. When asked about the Nissan Finance buyout price of $12990, the sales person stated that dealer fees for disposal were to account. Next.
2. Dealer two had a 2002 SV in house for $36,500 MSRP. They quoted me $480 a month for three years, 36k miles, and a buyout at the end of $20000. Next.
3. Carmax, on their website, has offered to purchase the car from me for $20000. I am not sure I trust Carmax.

Has anyone any experience with this same situation? Have any opinions on these offers? Would like to share what their strategy to unlocking the car's equity would be? Thanks for your help.
 
I was about to get about $1500 in equity for my 2018 SL, applied to my next lease. This was last Spring, before the chip shortage was major. If I were you, though, I'd sell it to Carmax.

BTW, I am 95% sure that dealers can't change the terms of the buyout. That includes buyout price (especially!) and the fees. What you are seeing is the sleazy side of the car business.
 
From a Google search:

Which Automaker's Finance Companies are Restricting Third-Party Sales?

To learn more about which automaker's finance companies are restricting the sale of leased cars, CarMax has a frequently updated list in the FAQ section of CarMax.com. They're also posting the information in their stores.

"Currently, CarMax cannot purchase a vehicle leased through the following companies: Nissan Motor Acceptance, Infiniti Financial Services, Honda Finance, Southeast Toyota Financial, GM Financial, Ford Credit, and Mazda Credit," says Unice.

They encourage lessees to contact their leasing companies before attempting to sell their vehicles.

Auto finance companies that are blocking CarMax are also presumably blocking the other 3rd party resellers.

OP, if you want to play car dealer you will have to buy the car and then sell it. That means paying Nissan fees as specified in the contract, taxes, and title. If you don't have the money then perhaps a loan. And of course the selling risks then fall on you.

If you are in a hot market for the LEAF a private sale that does not include your cash might work but the buyer will want a big discount for the hassle and risk you are going to put on them, and the buyer would have the leverage of knowing you are time limited. I say buyer risk because they are giving you cash for the buyout before you have the title.

Lefty and Cwerdna might be able to add something about transferring the lease as a way to run around NMAC but leasing contracts are tricky.

It probably comes down to this: do you have $13-14k cash for the buyout ?
 
Another angle:

If you would like to keep the car for yourself, you may be able to
get a loan for the buyout amount
https://www.creditkarma.com/auto/i/lease-buyout-loan


This also may work as a way to quickly flip the car, if you find a financing institution that lets a future buyer of the car pay off the loan and receive the title concurrently. You will have to read the contract small print regarding early loan termination. And keep in mind that high used car prices are not forever.

As you can see, greed alone is not enough to play this game. You need cash and/or experience to beat the other sharks.
 
As far as not trusting CarMax p, don’t worry. They are legit. I sold my 2019 F150: to them a few months ago and it went perfect. No issues, no surprises. After sending a copy of the title, driver license and registration they sent approval. I elected to drop it off. I dropped it off and elected wire transfer rather than a paper check. . Next day the money was in my bank.

If you decide to sell to CarMax you will need to buy the lease out first. You will need the paper title which may take some time to get. When you do that you will be responsible for fees and taxes for buying the car so figure that in. I believe that NMAC has a disposing fee that you must pay.
 
passepartout said:
My 2018 SV with 30k miles lease ends Nov 23. The buyout price is $12990. With the pandemic and chip shortage pushing up used car prices, Edmund's estimates a private sale value of $17500. So I have a bit of equity in the car. Looking at my options I could, buy the car and resell, sell it to a third party, or trade it in to unlock the equity in my favor.

1. Dealer one quoted me a buyout of $16,900. When asked about the Nissan Finance buyout price of $12990, the sales person stated that dealer fees for disposal were to account....
It's been a number of years but had a Dodge dealer attempt a similar maneuver when the lease on a Dakota pick-up was coming to an end. Their excuse was "excess mileage" fees. This lease had roughly $3K in equity, even with the extra mileage. I made arrangement directly with Chrysler Financial to buy it and finance the balance with my local bank. The dealer later called a 2nd time and repeated their demand to return the truck with a check for the excess mileage, told them to pound salt. Don't back down, they are hedging that you will cave or can't finance the terminal fee.
 
Thank you all. I do have the means to buy the car out and I will contact my credit union tomorrow. Looks like Nissan will not allow used car dealers to buy out their leases so that means I will likely purchase the car and then take it to CarMax. It will skim a few hundred off the equity but that will be fine.
Tomorrow I will stop by CarMax in person and get the purchase price down before calling my credit union.
 
[youtube] https://youtu.be/qHNTXBsUxf8[/youtube]
I guess the dealer you’re talking to doesn’t understand that a lease is a binding contract. He can’t just make stuff up. Well, actually he can, but at least you get to laugh at him when he does. Personally I would call Nissan Finance and let them know what he’s trying to pull. I don’t know about Nissan but if a Mercedes or GMC dealer tried this corporate would take the situation very seriously. Don’t ask me how I know.
 
passepartout said:
My 2018 SV with 30k miles lease ends Nov 23. The buyout price is $12990. With the pandemic and chip shortage pushing up used car prices, Edmund's estimates a private sale value of $17500. So I have a bit of equity in the car. Looking at my options...

We are in a similar situation - have a Model Y on order/hold to replace the wife's leased 2019 Leaf. There is a difference of ~$7k between our lease residual and the higher price offered by CarMax who we have sold to in the past without incident. We will probably pay cash buyout on the Leaf when the Y is delivered then turn around and sell the Leaf as soon as we can to CarMax or similar.

If we are able to pocket most of this difference, we basically got the majority of our 3-year lease paid for. Our '19 Model 3 is also worth more now than paid for.
 
passepartout said:
My 2018 SV with 30k miles lease ends Nov 23. The buyout price is $12990. With the pandemic and chip shortage pushing up used car prices, Edmund's estimates a private sale value of $17500. So I have a bit of equity in the car. Looking at my options I could, buy the car and resell, sell it to a third party, or trade it in to unlock the equity in my favor.

1. Dealer one quoted me a buyout of $16,900. When asked about the Nissan Finance buyout price of $12990, the sales person stated that dealer fees for disposal were to account. Next.
2. Dealer two had a 2002 SV in house for $36,500 MSRP. They quoted me $480 a month for three years, 36k miles, and a buyout at the end of $20000. Next.
3. Carmax, on their website, has offered to purchase the car from me for $20000. I am not sure I trust Carmax.

Has anyone any experience with this same situation? Have any opinions on these offers? Would like to share what their strategy to unlocking the car's equity would be? Thanks for your help.

Going to the dealership was your first mistake.

I went to DCU for a loan and they handled everything.

Residual; $19,210.00

DCU payment; 19,506.04

Which is about what the purchase cost would be I am thinking. There was one payment not made to NMAC so guessing that was part of the DCU payoff.

EDIT; so ran it thru CARMAX and they will give me $24,800 which is the same as Sept. This means the used car market is stagnating. :lol:
 
IIRC, the buyout fee is either $400 or $600. Whatever it says in the lease document, that's what a Nissan dealer has to take. I agree that using a dealership in this circumstance would be a mistake, though, because even though NMAC requires a third party inspection for damage shortly before the lease ends, I would expect, in this market, a Nissan dealership to try to claim excessive wear & tear.
 
Things might get a bit weirder if/when the bill that cleared the House this morning (Social Safety Net + Climate Bill containing new EV credits) gets cleared in the Senate with revisions and back in the House again...

That would increase used BEV prices currently selling for <$25k (with the current bill language for credit cutoff*). New BEV prices would continue to climb a bit more as well for those who don't have a locked in sales agreement.

*
-$4000 max credit, limited to 50% of purchase price
-< $25,000 sale price
-minimum 2 model years old
-AGI of buyer under $75k ($150k for married)
 
LeftieBiker said:
IIRC, the buyout fee is either $400 or $600. Whatever it says in the lease document, that's what a Nissan dealer has to take. I agree that using a dealership in this circumstance would be a mistake, though, because even though NMAC requires a third party inspection for damage shortly before the lease ends, I would expect, in this market, a Nissan dealership to try to claim excessive wear & tear.

Probably varies by state. Mine is $300
 
LeftieBiker said:
IIRC, the buyout fee is either $400 or $600. Whatever it says in the lease document, that's what a Nissan dealer has to take. I agree that using a dealership in this circumstance would be a mistake, though, because even though NMAC requires a third party inspection for damage shortly before the lease ends, I would expect, in this market, a Nissan dealership to try to claim excessive wear & tear.
Looked at our contract - in our case it lists a $300 Purchase Option Fee.

Do you know if there could be any unexpected fees, for example could they try to force an inspection fee even though we are purchasing the vehicle we leased?

Over at CarMax, they are offering $21.8k for our '19 Leaf SV with 18k miles. So calculate that we would net $8,416.60 if we buy the vehicle after our lease and turn around and immediately sell.

Here are the terms listed in our contract:
"You have the option to purchase this Vehicle "AS IS" from the originating dealer, or other location we specify, in cash for the Purchase Option Price, plus and officials fees and taxes, vehicle inspection costs required in connection with the purchase, and a Purchase Option Fee of $300, which fees, taxes and costs are not included in the Purchase Option Price agreed to in Section 6. If you purchase the Vehicle at the end of the lease term, the Purchase Option Price will be the Residual Value shown in Section 5.d). If you purchase the Vehicle before the end of the lease term, the Purchase Option Price will be the Adjusted Lease Balance disclosed in Section 14). In either case, you must also pay other amounts due under this Lease at the time of purchase."

In our case section 6 does not list any other fees. It states:
"Purchase Option at End of Lease Term. You have the option to purchase the Vehicle at the end of the lease term for $13,083.40, and a Purchase Option Fee of $300.00."

Section 14 just mentions that the "Adjusted Lease Balance" is a charge in today's dollars (date Lease terminated) for Base Monthly Payments not yet due and the Residual Value of the Vehicle.
 
iPlug said:
LeftieBiker said:
IIRC, the buyout fee is either $400 or $600. Whatever it says in the lease document, that's what a Nissan dealer has to take. I agree that using a dealership in this circumstance would be a mistake, though, because even though NMAC requires a third party inspection for damage shortly before the lease ends, I would expect, in this market, a Nissan dealership to try to claim excessive wear & tear.
Looked at our contract - in our case it lists a $300 Purchase Option Fee.

Do you know if there could be any unexpected fees, for example could they try to force an inspection fee even though we are purchasing the vehicle we leased?

Over at CarMax, they are offering $21.8k for our '19 Leaf SV with 18k miles. So calculate that we would net $8,416.60 if we buy the vehicle after our lease and turn around and immediately sell.

Here are the terms listed in our contract:
"You have the option to purchase this Vehicle "AS IS" from the originating dealer, or other location we specify, in cash for the Purchase Option Price, plus and officials fees and taxes, vehicle inspection costs required in connection with the purchase, and a Purchase Option Fee of $300, which fees, taxes and costs are not included in the Purchase Option Price agreed to in Section 6. If you purchase the Vehicle at the end of the lease term, the Purchase Option Price will be the Residual Value shown in Section 5.d). If you purchase the Vehicle before the end of the lease term, the Purchase Option Price will be the Adjusted Lease Balance disclosed in Section 14). In either case, you must also pay other amounts due under this Lease at the time of purchase."

In our case section 6 does not list any other fees. It states:
"Purchase Option at End of Lease Term. You have the option to purchase the Vehicle at the end of the lease term for $13,083.40, and a Purchase Option Fee of $300.00."

Section 14 just mentions that the "Adjusted Lease Balance" is a charge in today's dollars (date Lease terminated) for Base Monthly Payments not yet due and the Residual Value of the Vehicle.

No inspection required. There were some that got a "lease termination fee" which is probably a weakly disguised fee for that "free" inspection. See my math above. The VERY small discrepancy in the math I attribute to the rent fee savings from prepayment of the last lease payment.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
No inspection required. There were some that got a "lease termination fee" which is probably a weakly disguised fee for that "free" inspection. See my math above. The VERY small discrepancy in the math I attribute to the rent fee savings from prepayment of the last lease payment.

How long did it take you to get the title from NMAC? Did you sell to CarMax? CarMax requires car title or payoff information. Would like to make this as quick and frictionless as possible once we proceed.

Probably won’t actually go through with lease buyout for a few months as lease concludes in June and have a Model Y order on hold until the beginning of the year for anticipated $8000 federal tax credit and $4000 federal tax credit for the used BEV (not for us but next purchaser of Leaf) so this will likely raise the CarMax offer.
 
iPlug said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
No inspection required. There were some that got a "lease termination fee" which is probably a weakly disguised fee for that "free" inspection. See my math above. The VERY small discrepancy in the math I attribute to the rent fee savings from prepayment of the last lease payment.

How long did it take you to get the title from NMAC? Did you sell to CarMax? CarMax requires car title or payoff information. Would like to make this as quick and frictionless as possible once we proceed.

Probably won’t actually go through with lease buyout for a few months as lease concludes in June and have a Model Y order on hold until the beginning of the year for anticipated $8000 federal tax credit and $4000 federal tax credit for the used BEV (not for us but next purchaser of Leaf) so this will likely raise the CarMax offer.

I bought the car thru DCU. EVERYONE has the same requirements so I went to the NMAC site, downloaded the pay off form (you have two choices, dealer assisted or personal finance) Then sent in odo statement (pix from phone) via electrons registered for DCU account and title received by Fedex 5 days later.

I did get confirmation on NMAC website that purchase transaction was completed the same day I registered for DCU account (required for car loan)
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
I bought the car thru DCU. EVERYONE has the same requirements so I went to the NMAC site, downloaded the pay off form (you have two choices, dealer assisted or personal finance) Then sent in odo statement (pix from phone) via electrons registered for DCU account and title received by Fedex 5 days later.

I did get confirmation on NMAC website that purchase transaction was completed the same day I registered for DCU account (required for car loan)
+
 
iPlug said:
DaveinOlyWA said:
No inspection required. There were some that got a "lease termination fee" which is probably a weakly disguised fee for that "free" inspection. See my math above. The VERY small discrepancy in the math I attribute to the rent fee savings from prepayment of the last lease payment.

How long did it take you to get the title from NMAC? Did you sell to CarMax? CarMax requires car title or payoff information. Would like to make this as quick and frictionless as possible once we proceed.

Probably won’t actually go through with lease buyout for a few months as lease concludes in June and have a Model Y order on hold until the beginning of the year for anticipated $8000 federal tax credit and $4000 federal tax credit for the used BEV (not for us but next purchaser of Leaf) so this will likely raise the CarMax offer.

If your goal is profiteering from the current market conditions, I am going to have to think you are risking a lot by waiting.
 
DaveinOlyWA said:
If your goal is profiteering from the current market conditions, I am going to have to think you are risking a lot by waiting.

The primary goal is upgrading to a new vehicle, rather than profiteering. But since the upgrade pathway is flexible for us by many months, and poor timing would cost several thousand, it makes a lot of financial sense to calibrate to expected market and political conditions.

The plan is to un-hold our Model Y order on 12/31/2021 so we would be eligible for the $8000 federal tax credit starting that midnight. The credit is based on when the vehicle is delivered, so if delivered before New Years no $8k.

We already locked in a lower price a couple months ago, and now it’s selling for $2-4k more. The hold is guaranteed until mid March. If it is ready to deliver before June we will buyout the Leaf lease early and sell it as soon as the Title is available.

The market calculated risk significantly favors an increased offer from Carmax with the $4000 federal tax credit for the used Leaf BEV, effective 1/1/2022. Again, this credit would not go directly to us but the next purchaser of the Leaf from CarMax. Hence such distortionary market conditions dictate this would raise the CarMax offer to us.

Naturally there is some degree of counteraction from depreciation of the vehicle during those months and easing of the used car market inventory strain, but that is unlikely to fully offset the used car federal tax credit.

Is this all guaranteed to pan out a precisely as hoped? No. But again this is a calculated risk with market odds that significantly favor this play.
 
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