SageBrush
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:53 am

jjeff summed things up nicely.

This will all likely come down to how expensive it is to run a new, separate 50A circuit. If that is the route OP chooses he can terminate it with either a 14-50r or a 6-50r receptacle ("outlet"). If he is going to use the EVSE he has then I would terminate with 6-50r and then buy an adapter. If he is going to buy a new EVSE (that probably comes with a 14-50p plug) then terminating the new circuit with a 14-50r receptacle makes sense.

New circuits can run the gamut from $200 to $2000+ depending on electrician, locale, and the specifics of the job. It can get *really* expensive if a panel upgrade is also recommended. Pricey circuit proposals should make you reconsider the dryer buddy.

-- last point to keep in the back of your mind:
Your LEAF will never pull more than 27.5 Amps (meaning a circuit and breaker that is rated for at least 27.5/0.8 = 35 Amps. The actual max power will be less if the EVSE is limited to a lower rate. The game here is to think of the setup as circuit, EVSE, car.
The circuit (and its breaker) has to support 1.25x the lessor of the max Amps that the EVSE or car is rated.
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Apr 12, 2021 1:18 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
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Wavebender
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:51 pm

jjeff wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:37 am
Wavebender wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:12 am
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I have a 2013 Nissan branded EVSE that was upgraded in the aftermarket to also support 240v. I think it also has the same plug as you report, so perhaps you have the same ?

It doesn't really matter though since you know the specs.
Does yours have a white sticker on it with the text I reported? It’s definitely a different Nissan part number. The sticker is on the left side of the stock spec box.
Yes, it sounds like you have an EVSEupgrade, upgraded EVSE that was done by an original MNL member(iEngineer). You'd send in your 120v OEM Leaf EVSE, his company would upgrade it to L2(240v) and promptly ship it back, I believe I paid around $300 and mine still works well to this day. He had various upgrades over the years, the first ones maxed out at 24a, some 20a(like mine and I believe yours) and the last ones maxed out at 16a due to Nissan cheaping out on the J1772 cable making it only 14 gauge instead of 12 gauge.
You can certainly add a 14-50 RV/Range plug/circuit to your garage and I wouldn't argue against doing it, it would future-proof you to the maximum charge any current car really draws. You'd still need an adapter cord to convert from your L14-30 to 14-50 but they are pretty cheap and easy to find on Amazon, I have several as I also have a 14-50 outlet in my garage. Note you still won't get getting the maximum charge rate your Leaf can draw(27.5a) as it sounds like your EVSE maxes out at 20a, still a vast improvement over the puny 12a @ 120v that a standard EVSE provides.
If you did install a 14-50 plug in your garage you could purchase any number of 30a L2 EVSEs, starting around $400 on Amazon. If on the other hand you wanted to go the least expensive route just purchasing a ~$50 adapter to go from your dryer plug to new EVSE and only use either your dryer or EVSE at the same time, you'd probably save a $1000 or more, it's your choice. Note depending on your tax situation you may be able to deduct part of the cost of any new EVSE and labor/materials required to install a new EVSE, I was able to take advantage of this a few years back and it helped me save several hundred dollars off my taxes.
32a portable EVSE-https://www.amazon.com/Orion-Motor-Tech ... s9dHJ1ZQ==
32a wall mount EVSE-https://www.amazon.com/Blink-Electric-V ... 288&sr=1-5
I just linked a few EVSEs off Amazon, they sell hundreds of different models/brands. Some wall mount ones are hard-wired some have a plug, personally I'd suggest a plug-in model with the very common 14-50 end as if you start having issues with the EVSE it would be easy to plug in another like the one you have for testing purposes. Note I have no personal experience with either of the EVSEs I've linked, I believe the Blink you hardwire but they may make ones with a plug, which again I'd probably suggest but both look pretty decent, I'd suggest reading reviews.
Yep, jjeff’s looks identical to mine except mine says “20A typical” on the sticker. That Orion looks like a fine option at $300, but I only paid $175 for my upgraded EVSE so I’ll stick with it.

I’m rethinking a 50A installation versus a 30A. Certainly if a new panel is required for the 50A, that’s a deal breaker. I’ll have to get a contractor out here before I decide. And I wonder how many future EVs will need or even be capable of handling that much power? I could spend a thousand more for a future that may never arrive.

I looked up all the different plugs so I’m less likely to screw up. We used to have a 33’ fifth wheel RV so I was imagining a 50A plug would be one of those huge screw in jobs. SO much to learn!
Last edited by Wavebender on Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:56 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Wavebender
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:53 pm

SageBrush wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 6:20 am
Wavebender wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:12 am
SageBrush wrote:
Sat Apr 10, 2021 10:41 pm
I have a 2013 Nissan branded EVSE that was upgraded in the aftermarket to also support 240v. I think it also has the same plug as you report, so perhaps you have the same ?

It doesn't really matter though since you know the specs.
Does yours have a white sticker on it with the text I reported? It’s definitely a different Nissan part number. The sticker is on the left side of the stock spec box.
Here is a link to photos I took of my upgraded EVSE. The upgraded spec changes a little depending on the exact Nissan model #
https://photos.app.goo.gl/5PudkP1UiN5NTmMr7

My EVSE was upgraded by a company no longer in business called evseupgrade.com. Their old webpages can be accessed via the wayback machine at https://web.archive.org/web/20180815150 ... ducts_id=2
That’s the one. Looks just like mine. Mystery solved!
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:29 pm

Wavebender wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 3:51 pm
Yep, jjeff’s looks identical to mine except mine says “20A typical” on the sticker. That Orion looks like a fine option at $300, but I only paid $175 for my upgraded EVSE so I’ll stick with it.

I’m rethinking a 50A installation versus a 30A. Certainly if a new panel is required for the 50A, that’s a deal breaker. I’ll have to get a contractor out here before I decide. And I wonder how many future EVs will need or even be capable of handling that much power? I could spend a thousand more for a future that may never arrive.

I looked up all the different plugs so I’m less likely to screw up. We used to have a 33’ fifth wheel RV so I was imagining a 50A plug would be one of those huge screw in jobs. SO much to learn!
You got a good deal for $175, like I said I believe I paid ~$300 for my upgrade and I supplied the EVSE.
It's very rare for an EV to charge at more than 30a, I believe some Teslas and a few others, many are even less than 30a, quite a few are only 16a, of course as batteries get larger, faster-charging currents may become more common but I'm not sure.....
If you have a newer RV I'm guessing it uses the 14-50 plug which is quite big and bulky, it's the reason I kind of standardized with my portable EVSEs on the L6-30 or even better the L14-30 standard which is the same size but includes a neutral. Not 50a like the 14-50 but much more manageable. As I said before I also have several adapters I made and I use my 14-50 male to L6-30 female adapter to power my EVSEupgrade'd EVSE when charging from my 40a 14-50 garage outlet. I also have a few L14-30 outlets outside my house and in that case, I've made an L14-30 male to L6-30 female adapter to power said EVSE. I like the L14-30 outlets because you can easily find cheap premade adapter cables(oftentimes used for portable generators) that convert the L14-30 outlet into 2 heavy-duty 120v standard outlets, it's like a Y cable. In hindsight I probably should have just cut the L6-30p end off my EVSEupgrade'd EVSE and installed an L14-30 plug which would save me from having to use the adapter I made. At the time I wasn't sure if the L6-30 or L14-30 would become more common, neither really did that much except on generators that oftentimes use the L14-30 outlet.
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SageBrush
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Mon Apr 12, 2021 12:33 am

jjeff wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:29 pm
It's very rare for an EV to charge at more than 30a, I believe some Teslas and a few others, many are even less than 30a, quite a few are only 16a, of course as batteries get larger, faster-charging currents may become more common but I'm not sure.....
My impression is that EVs made these days are splitting into two groups: those that support 32 Amps and higher end cars that support 40 Amps. A few, like Tesla and now VW, go up to 48 Amps. These Amp limits are designed for 40, 50 and 60 Amp circuits, respectively. The middle spec is something of a sweet spot because of the ubiquity of 14-50 and 6-50 plugs and receptacles.

Of course nothing forces a homeowner to match the top charging limit of their cars. My advice is pretty simple: if a new circuit is being installed then future-proof it to 50 or 60 Amps since the extra cost is minimal so long as the panel has room. For people who want to use what they already have, that is fine so long as it meets their driving and charging needs. Anything from 16 Amps at 240 volts is likely to be good enough. People in cold climates appreciate higher Amp circuits when they charge and pre-heat at the same time. My personal experience with my 32 Amp charging at home is that it is more than I need on 99% of days, but it is nice when I wake up in the morning and realize I forgot to plug in the day before. People who do not have a plan 'B' such as locally accessible DC fast charging should try to add some charging cushion at home. Stuff happens.

---
One word of warning: it is not a good idea to share one outlet between the EV and other appliances unless it is through a dedicated switch like the dryer buddy. You *really* want to plug in the EVSE and pretty much leave it alone. Repetitive plugging and unplugging will lead to poor contact between the plug and the receptacle and at the high current draws of EVs, bad stuff happens. Be safe

<rant>
Just about all of us at one time or another engaged in the terrible habit of wiggling plugs to make them easier to pul out. That just destroys the good contact between surfaces and leads to melted components, or fires in bad cases. </rant>
Last edited by SageBrush on Mon Apr 12, 2021 5:47 am, edited 1 time in total.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

SageBrush
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Mon Apr 12, 2021 2:00 am

This is a well done tutorial* about EVSEs and home charging. It is framed for ID.4 owners but the underlying concepts apply to all EVs

https://youtu.be/KfSeT72izxI



* With some caveats: Tom implies that the Tesla EVSE terminates in a J1772. That is mostly incorrect.
He also says that 4G wire is needed for 60 Amp circuits. I don't think that is generally true for copper except for NM-B
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. California
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr, 28k miles
11/18: 56.16 Ahr, 30k miles
09/20: 54.3 Ahr; 38k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018

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Wavebender
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Tue Apr 13, 2021 6:16 pm

LeftieBiker wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 12:37 am
Edit: I just upgraded to Goldmember!
The change will likely take a few days. I'm not involved with that, and the guy who is has multiple sites to mind.
It’s been six days now. (crickets)
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Tue Apr 13, 2021 9:46 pm

Use the "Contact us" link at the top of every page to send an email to the guy who handles that. His name is Mike. I can do it if you like, but with my memory, you'd be safer doing it yourself.
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Wed Apr 14, 2021 6:38 am

Another data point for you since I have one of the (early) "Ingeneer" modified EVSE's with an L6-20 plug (16a max). I built a NEMA 6-20 to 10-30 adapter that I use (full time) on a dryer outlet in my garage...for almost 10 years now.
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Re: A tale of two chargers

Wed Apr 14, 2021 8:31 am

jjeff wrote:
Sun Apr 11, 2021 4:29 pm
It's very rare for an EV to charge at more than 30a
Rare? The majority of plug-in EVs sold in North America can L2 charge at 48A.
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