The LEAF's top speed is...

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GeekEV

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Jan 18, 2011
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...not what you'd think. Nissan says "up to 90mph", but I'm here to tell you it's actually 94! :lol:

Yes, a quick searched turned up a few posts mentioning 94mph, but those were from last summer before the car was actually available. Some were speculating that was a downhill speed. It's not. I (briefly) had it up to 94 on flat terrain...
 
So of course you confirmed that by turning around and hitting 94 in the opposite direction as well, right? Thus eliminating any slight incline, wind effect, or gravitational anomalies. Or had the first run drained the battery too far? :shock:

Ray
 
This guy got his up to 97.6MPH (157KPH)

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H77j0A2ZLHw[/youtube]

Although speedometers almost always read higher than actual speed, since they will never be perfectly calibrated and they error on the side of caution; It is law in many places that they can not read LOW. Ultimately they can be as much as 10% out of whack, so if someone told me Nissan electronically limits actual speed to 90MPH I'd believe it regardless of what the speedometer says.
=Smidge=
 
Any car's indicated speed (designed to DISPLAY high) needs to be checked against a simple handheld GPS's speed (almost always quite accurate).

Also, cars often have an internal version of "true speed", usually "visible" by reading the CAN buss data.
 
planet4ever said:
So of course you confirmed that by turning around and hitting 94 in the opposite direction as well, right? Thus eliminating any slight incline, wind effect, or gravitational anomalies. Or had the first run drained the battery too far? :shock:
Ok, it wasn't a certified world record run, granted... :lol:
garygid said:
Any car's indicated speed (designed to DISPLAY high) needs to be checked against a simple handheld GPS's speed (almost always quite accurate).
That I can do. Next chance I get... :)
 
So....when you are going 94 (or 97) mph, and it suddenly switches to "turtle", I wonder how far it would take you before it stops altogether? (assuming level terrain, no wind, ambient temp of 60deg, no extra passengers or cargo aboard, etc, etc. Jeeeeeesh!!! :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
 
Smidge204 said:
Ultimately they can be as much as 10% out of whack, so if someone told me Nissan electronically limits actual speed to 90MPH I'd believe it regardless of what the speedometer says.
=Smidge=
If Nissan can accurately electronically limit the speed to 90 mph, why can't they show the speed accurately ?
 
Due to tire pressure, temperature, etc. it is difficult (without GPS) to determine the car's speed accurately, but they can assume nominal conditions and that usually gives them an internal-use true speed value that is "close" enough.

However, due to most international "conventions" for cars, the auto maker is not allowed to DISPLAY a speed value that is "too low". So, it is standard to display a value that is 2% or 3% higher than the internal "true speed" value.
 
garygid said:
However, due to most international "conventions" for cars, the auto maker is not allowed to DISPLAY a speed value that is "too low". So, it is standard to display a value that is 2% or 3% higher than the internal "true speed" value.
2% to 3% sounds realistic. 10% is too big a difference when the computer knows the rpm of the motor accurately.
 
garygid said:
Any car's indicated speed (designed to DISPLAY high) needs to be checked against a simple handheld GPS's speed (almost always quite accurate).
As someone who has owned 3 different handheld GPS units and one dash-mount unit, I can tell you they are terrible at top speed measurement. I have driven on the freeway at a steady 60 mph for a measured 3 miles to test the speedometer and GPS accuracy. I finished the measured 3 miles in exactly 3 minutes, confirming the 60 MPH speed. The car speedometer never wavered more than 1 dot on the gauge. The GPS unit (a high-end Garmin) showed a top speed of over 80 and a low speed of 40-something. I've tested them in planes, too. While cruising at altitude in a commercial airliner they have shown a speed of over 900 MPH. Not possible. They are simply unreliable for measuring top speed or short distance. This is because they take a reading every second or so and can be off by as much as 20 or 30 feet each time. Sometimes they miss a reading due to interference (trees, mountains, buildings) or get a poor reading with only three satellites, increasing inaccuracy to as much as 50 or even 100 feet. If you are traveling 60 MPH you are going 88 feet every second. So if you head northbound at 88 fps and the GPS reads your position further N by 20 feet than it really is then 1 second later reads it as further S than it really is by 20 feet, it has subtracted 40 feet from the actual distance you traveled, thinking you are going barely over half your true speed. Similarly if the readings are inaccurate the opposite direction you can be 50% faster. This problem is lessened if the readings are less frequent, but then you get a different inaccuracy if you are on a curved road or trail since the distances the GPS measures are straight line. So the maximum and minimum speeds on GPS units are often very inaccurate. If you only look at average speed over a considerable distance on a straight level road, then they are usually quite accurate, but not as accurate as your car's speedometer. If you really want to check the speedometer's accuracy you need to use a police radar, or better yet, lidar. Those electronic signs that tell you your speed are also very accurate if you are the only car in range.
 
I spend a lot of time with GPS units of all kinds in boats, planes, automobiles, motorcycles and on foot. All in all, I have found the speed accuracy to be excellent, usually well within 1 MPH. However, there are a few caveats:

Many GPS units will allow you to set the filtering for speed and direction averaging, either fast, medium or slow. This will affect how often and over what distance the unit updates and averages. I almost always use fast.

GPS speed will only be accurate in a straight line. If you are in a turn, it will always read less than your true speed over the road/water/air. This is sine/cosine error.

Be sure you have WAAS enabled if it is an option. This will increase the position and speed accuracy.

Most non-aviation GPSes will not accurately read over about 400-500 mph. Some don't work at all at that speed. The manual or specs will often so state in fact. Thus, the speed reading you get in a jet with a generic GPS is almost certain to be greatly in error.


Rat said:
garygid said:
Any car's indicated speed (designed to DISPLAY high) needs to be checked against a simple handheld GPS's speed (almost always quite accurate).
As someone who has owned 3 different handheld GPS units and one dash-mount unit, I can tell you they are terrible at top speed measurement. I have driven on the freeway at a steady 60 mph for a measured 3 miles to test the speedometer and GPS accuracy. I finished the measured 3 miles in exactly 3 minutes, confirming the 60 MPH speed. The car speedometer never wavered more than 1 dot on the gauge. The GPS unit (a high-end Garmin) showed a top speed of over 80 and a low speed of 40-something. I've tested them in planes, too. While cruising at altitude in a commercial airliner they have shown a speed of over 900 MPH. Not possible. They are simply unreliable for measuring top speed or short distance. This is because they take a reading every second or so and can be off by as much as 20 or 30 feet each time. Sometimes they miss a reading due to interference (trees, mountains, buildings) or get a poor reading with only three satellites, increasing inaccuracy to as much as 50 or even 100 feet. If you are traveling 60 MPH you are going 88 feet every second. So if you head northbound at 88 fps and the GPS reads your position further N by 20 feet than it really is then 1 second later reads it as further S than it really is by 20 feet, it has subtracted 40 feet from the actual distance you traveled, thinking you are going barely over half your true speed. Similarly if the readings are inaccurate the opposite direction you can be 50% faster. This problem is lessened if the readings are less frequent, but then you get a different inaccuracy if you are on a curved road or trail since the distances the GPS measures are straight line. So the maximum and minimum speeds on GPS units are often very inaccurate. If you only look at average speed over a considerable distance on a straight level road, then they are usually quite accurate, but not as accurate as your car's speedometer. If you really want to check the speedometer's accuracy you need to use a police radar, or better yet, lidar. Those electronic signs that tell you your speed are also very accurate if you are the only car in range.
 
For what it's worth, I did some more testing today. I didn't get back up to 94, but at speeds between 65 - 85, my GPS read anywhere from -0.5 mph to -1.5 mph versus the dash...
 
Sounds like exactly what I'd expect to see from the speedometer versus the GPS.

GeekEV said:
For what it's worth, I did some more testing today. I didn't get back up to 94, but at speeds between 65 - 85, my GPS read anywhere from -0.5 mph to -1.5 mph versus the dash...
 
What is the motor RPM at 94mph? Perhaps there's a limit how fast that thing should spin without coming apart.

Who supplies the motors anyway? Dremel? :)
 
LTLFTcomposite said:
What is the motor RPM at 94mph? Perhaps there's a limit how fast that thing should spin without coming apart.
I think it's around 12,000 rpm.

LTLFTcomposite said:
Who supplies the motors anyway? Dremel? :)
Nissan makes them in house. :)
 
drees said:
I think it's around 12,000 rpm.

I seem to recall the guy at the drive event saying it was 18,000 RPM, and that was at something less than 94mph. Either he could have been mistaken or my recollection could be flawed though.
 
planet4ever said:
If the graph in on page 17 of SAE International's 2011 Nissan Leaf Vehicle Overview is correct, the maximum torque drops to zero at about 10,500 rpm. That same publication gives a final gear ratio (7.9377), which I didn't try to convert to mph since I don't know anything about tire sizes.
For anyone who does:

RPM of motor = (MPH * 0.0476) / (Effective Tire Radius)

Beware that this is 6AM math... :) the 0.0476 converts minutes to hours, inches to miles, and accounts for Pi and the gear ratio. Or at least it should.
=Smidge=
 
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