I heard from the current owner of my 2013 SL. He told me the 12V was low after the car sat unused (outside) for 3 weeks. But then again, it's still on the original 12V battery, presumably put into service when the car was mfg'd in December 2013.
Thanks for all your help. Feeling much better about storing it now!LeftieBiker wrote: ↑Tue Apr 14, 2020 12:40 pmYes. I would suggest, though, that it be left closer to 60% than to 80%. 40-50% would be optimum, if you won't need to take it on a long trip right out of storage.Ok, so:
- leaving the main battery charged at 60-80%
- with the car unplugged and
- with the 12V battery remaining connected
should technically be ok for 3 months during the summer (in Southern California)
That's the point: the longer your battery sits near 100%, the the more its long-term health deteriorates.SanCarlosJeff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:53 am The last time I drove my Leaf was March 14. I charged it to 100% that day and then unplugged it. This thread got me to thinking that I should go take a look at the charge level. I was very surprised/impressed to see that the battery charge is now at 99%.
TLDR: Correct.Stanton wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:26 amThat's the point: the longer your battery sits near 100%, the the more its long-term health deteriorates.SanCarlosJeff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:53 am The last time I drove my Leaf was March 14. I charged it to 100% that day and then unplugged it. This thread got me to thinking that I should go take a look at the charge level. I was very surprised/impressed to see that the battery charge is now at 99%.
Lithium batteries are designed to "hold their charge" (that's why they work so well in our cars), but don't like to be stored at/near 100% (especially in warm environments).
This would seem to imply that unless new battery technologies get markedly better with respect to degradation, we will eventually end up in a world where we drive around with vastly larger batteries than nominally necessary in order to preserve battery life, as costs come down. Batteries with 15-20% reserve would seem to be one solution - that's what you're effectively suggesting isn't it? Drive your car between 30 and 70% charge, i.e. use 40% of available range unless otherwise needed. We've been doing 25-75% more recently, as we've gained experience.WetEV wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 9:30 amThe Leaf doesn't allow for an actual 100% charge, but only about 95%. The LEAF SOC gauge reports 100% at about 95% actual capacity, to say this another way.Stanton wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 7:26 amThat's the point: the longer your battery sits near 100%, the the more its long-term health deteriorates.SanCarlosJeff wrote: ↑Wed Apr 15, 2020 8:53 am The last time I drove my Leaf was March 14. I charged it to 100% that day and then unplugged it. This thread got me to thinking that I should go take a look at the charge level. I was very surprised/impressed to see that the battery charge is now at 99%.
Lithium batteries are designed to "hold their charge" (that's why they work so well in our cars), but don't like to be stored at/near 100% (especially in warm environments).
[snip] store the traction battery at about 40% SOC, unless you might need to do a significant drive without charging. Avoid storage above about 70%, if you can help it. Avoid discharge below 30%, if you can help it.
Batteries have gotten markedly better, and are likely to continue to become better with respect to degradation.frontrangeleaf wrote: ↑Thu Apr 16, 2020 10:38 amThis would seem to imply that unless new battery technologies get markedly better with respect to degradation, we will eventually end up in a world where we drive around with vastly larger batteries than nominally necessary in order to preserve battery life, as costs come down. Batteries with 15-20% reserve would seem to be one solution - that's what you're effectively suggesting isn't it? Drive your car between 30 and 70% charge, i.e. use 40% of available range unless otherwise needed. We've been doing 25-75% more recently, as we've gained experience.
Looking farther forward, manufacturing economies of scale will kick in enough, and we'll just replace a worn out battery every 80k miles or something. It will be interesting to see how things shake out. But for now, it would seem that battery manufacturing capacity is lagging demand.
Li-ion battery calendar loss is dependant on SOC. The higher the SOC, the faster the loss. Yes, even down to 10%, the lowest tested.
This doesn't seem to apply well to the post 3/2013 Leaf packs. The Wolf and Lizard packs have little calendar loss unless charged to near 100%, and the post-Lizard 30 and 40kwh packs seem to have other issues that don't have much if anything to do with storage SOC, again as long as it isn't very high.
If you leave the car at 80% SOC, it isn't going to reach 10% SOC faster then if you initially left the car at 60% SOC.