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Stanton
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

jjeff wrote: Wed Feb 23, 2022 8:30 am I really wanted her to get a Prius Prime but she really wanted anything but.....
Smart girl...
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

cwerdna wrote: Sun Feb 27, 2022 5:32 am Yep. It's possible it's a regional/locally injected ad for my area. I don't recall which channel I saw it on.

I've seen the Niro ad numerous times over the past couple of months, on different channels. Probably a California or maybe Bay Area thing.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

IEVS:
2023 Kia Niro Makes US Debut, EV Model Has 253-Mile Targeted Range
The US-spec 2023 Kia Niro EV features a 64.8-kWh lithium-ion battery and a 150 kW front-mounted electric motor.
https://insideevs.com/news/579693/2023- ... ted-range/

. . . Sporting all-new exterior and interior styling influenced by the HabaNiro concept and the "Opposites United" design philosophy, the 2023 Kia Niro is larger in every dimension, with the automaker claiming class-leading passenger and cargo volume.

Thanks to a longer wheelbase of 107.1 inches and overall length of 174 inches, cargo capacity behind the rear seats increases to 22.8 cubic feet, which Kia says is 50% more cargo room than the Tesla Model 3.

Arriving in late summer 2022 at Kia retailers in all 50 states, the 2023 Kia Niro EV targets 253 miles (407 km) of range and quicker charging compared to the 2022 model: 10-80% in under 45 minutes at a maximum charging capability of 85 kW using a SAE J1772 Level 3 fast charger.

Using the 11 kW onboard charger, the 2023 Kia Niro EV can be recharged in under seven hours on a Level 2 charger. Kia says that an optional heat pump and battery warmer will help preserve range in cold temperatures.

The all-electric Niro EV is powered by a 64.8 kWh battery—slightly larger than the outgoing model's 64 kWh pack—and features a 150-kW (201-hp) motor driving the front wheels. The 2023 Niro EV is available with the same vehicle-to-load (V2L) onboard generator functionality pioneered by the EV6.

The automaker did not announce pricing but said the Niro EV would qualify for the $7,500 federal tax credit.

Moving on to the 2023 Kia Niro PHEV, it pairs a 1.6-liter engine with a 6-speed dual-clutch automatic transmission and 62 kW electric motor for a total system output of 180 hp and 195 lb-ft (264 Nm) of torque. The plug-in hybrid model also features a 11.1-kWh lithium-ion polymer battery that can be recharged in under three hours when connected to a Level 2 charger.

The all-electric range of the Niro PHEV is estimated at 33 miles (53 km) when fitted with 16-inch wheels, which is an improvement of 25 percent over the model it replaces.

Customers will be able to differentiate the 2023 Niro EV and PHEV by the latter's black door cladding and wheel arches compared to Steel Grey or black exterior trim (depending on the color) for the former.

So no 800V, and while DCFC speed is better it still falls well short of what I think's needed, i.e. max. rate of at least 1.5C (approx. 100kW for this pack) and no more than 30 minutes 20-80%. Max. L2 charging rate must be 48A; anything under 40 for a pack this size would prevent an 8 hour 'overnight' charge.

The PHEV's AER has increased, as might be expected given California's 2020 requirement upgrade of 35 miles (EPA UDDS aka 'city' cycle) to qualify for the state tax rebate, with further interim increases likely before as currently planned it reaches 50 miles in 2035. I think a 50 mile AER is hard to justify given typical daily driving distances and the extra weight, bulk and cost, but it does allow for degradation.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
LeftieBiker
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

I don't recall complaints about the Volt's AER being too much.
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goldbrick
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

My Rav4 Prime has a AER of 42 miles and it is.....barely adequate. It seems like a lot but I don't want to hit 0 right before my destination and have the ICE come on for a minute and on the other end, I rarely charge to 100%.

My commute is only 9 miles and shopping, etc is less but I spend a lot of mental wear and tear to keep track of the SOC. Of course, I try to never use the ICE except for trips > 50 miles.
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Stanton
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

goldbrick wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:51 pm My commute is only 9 miles and shopping, etc is less but I spend a lot of mental wear and tear to keep track of the SOC.
Exactly! This is one of the reasons I don't like hybrids. If someone is trying to "save gas/$" by buying a hybrid, then you can't tell me that they are not going to be obsessive about when the ICE kicks in.
2011 Blue Ocean SV w/OVMS
12v LiFePO4 battery
FIAMM 74100 horns/Wet Okole seat covers/Tor's heater mod/Dala's CAN-bridge
Lizard Pack (Rev E) installed @51 months/41k miles
40 kWh Pack (Gen2) installed @115 months/84k miles
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Stanton wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:26 am
goldbrick wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:51 pm My commute is only 9 miles and shopping, etc is less but I spend a lot of mental wear and tear to keep track of the SOC.
Exactly! This is one of the reasons I don't like hybrids. If someone is trying to "save gas/$" by buying a hybrid, then you can't tell me that they are not going to be obsessive about when the ICE kicks in.

Not everyone is obsessive about burning a bit of gas: those who are should probably get a ZEV, if they can. My friend's leased 3 PHEVs, two Ford Fusion Energies (19 and 22 mile AER IIRR) and currently a BMW X5 xDrive 45e (31 mile AER). All of them have handled his routine local driving just fine, and he simply doesn't worry if he occasionally needs to use the ICE for slightly longer trips. When his current lease expires next year he's looking to get a BEV, as there are now enough choices to meet his needs. As he only takes weekend trips by car (any further and he flies and rents), current BEVs can meet his needs given the places he drives, which have charging facilities available enroute or at the destination.

There will always be a market for people who need a PHEV with 'just a bit more' AER, the question is whether a government needs to mandate that range, or instead just mandate enough to handle the typical daily usage and let the people who need more buy cars to suit (assuming the market's big enough for manufacturers to bother).

As PHEVs with fossil-fueled ICEs are a transition tech which will fade out over the next 15 years or so as batteries, fuel cells, syn/bio-fuels or what have you improve in cost and capability, I think it's counter-productive to set the fossil-fuel ICE PHEV AER bar too high, raising the price (as well as the weight and the volume taken up by the pack) of these cars. Mass adoption requires mass market prices, and that means below $30k base MSRP + dest., preferably a lot below. Big PHEV packs work against that. I always thought the i3 Rex (originally 72, later 84? mile AER plus ~ 1 hour of range on the ICE) was pretty dumb, as it had a very limited market and was far too expensive owing to its large pack PLUS an (underpowered) ICE that required premium gas. [Edit: I see that the 2021 with an even larger 42.4 kWh vice the original 22 kWh pack claimed a max. range of 153 miles at a base MSRP + dest. of $45,445, with the 643cc gas engine and small 2.4 gal. tank adding just 47 miles of range for a max. of 200 on the now much heavier base car, and costing $3,850 more. IMO this is idiotic - who's the intended market for a car with such specs, when you could buy a cheaper BEV with greater range, or a shorter AER PHEV with four hours or more of driving range on the ICE for $15-$20k less?]

When they put the new cells in I thought that rather than increase the AER they should retain the existing AER or even reduce it, and use the space saved to increase the size of the fuel tank to hold at least 2 or better 4 hours of gas and boost the power output of the ICE, making it far more practical as an all-around car. As that would likely have required a whole new round of crash testing that probably made no economic sense to BMW, given the limited market. OTOH, given that it only cost about $5k [or less. See above] more than the i3 BEV while offering more than twice the utility, it still provided much more bang for the buck than the latter.

For more discussion of what's a good range for PHEVs, what's wrong with current PHEV incentives and how you might fix them, see: https://evadoption.com/phevs-are-a-grea ... ed-fixing/

Seeing as how I've raised many of the same points in the past and Mr. McDonald (whose posts I just recently found) and I seem to have similar philosophies, it's no surprise I'm in near 100% agreement with him.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
SageBrush
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Stanton wrote: Thu Apr 14, 2022 9:26 am
goldbrick wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:51 pm My commute is only 9 miles and shopping, etc is less but I spend a lot of mental wear and tear to keep track of the SOC.
Exactly! This is one of the reasons I don't like hybrids. If someone is trying to "save gas/$" by buying a hybrid, then you can't tell me that they are not going to be obsessive about when the ICE kicks in.
I've owned a plug-in hybrid, and was in the ranks of those who hated when the ICE kicked in not too far from my charging destination. For me it had nothing to due with gas/$ since that was peanuts. It was a matter of emissions, and hating the ICE experience.
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

goldbrick wrote: Wed Apr 13, 2022 6:51 pm My Rav4 Prime has a AER of 42 miles and it is.....barely adequate. It seems like a lot but I don't want to hit 0 right before my destination and have the ICE come on for a minute and on the other end, I rarely charge to 100%.
Unless things have changed a lot, Toyota limits max SoC to ~ 70% of nominal. Charge up to '100%' without a second thought. You can check for yourself by looking at the cell voltage at full charge.

Addendum:
EPA gives a somewhat different answer but the conclusions are unchanged:
18.1 kWh nominal capacity
42 EV miles * (33,700/94) Wh/mile = 15 kWh
Maximum SoC as fraction of nominal: 15/18.1 = 83%
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
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Re: Kia Niro BEV

Consumer Reports Says the Best Electric Vehicle is a Kia
https://www.motorbiscuit.com/consumer-r ... hicle-kia/

. . . Consumer Reports named the 2022 Kia Niro Electric the best electric car. The Niro EV scored an 88/100. For comparison, the Mustang Mach E came in second place with a score of 82/100. Meanwhile, the Tesla Model 3 landed in fourth place with a 79/100.

In all the major categories like predicted reliability and customer satisfaction, the Kia Niro Electric crushed. 4/5s and 5/5s populate the rating sheet. The all-electric hatchback seems to have struck a perfect balance of comfort and style while still being modest and affordable within the segment. Solid range figures, practicality, and a strong list of creature comforts make the Kia Niro EV tough to deny. . . .

Consumer Reports draws the natural comparison to the closest rated Tesla, the Model 3, saying, “it has a more forgiving ride, a roomier interior, and easier-to-use controls.” They go on to say, “It also feels more refined and substantial than the Chevrolet Bolt and Nissan Leaf. . . .”

Does the Kia Niro Electric have any problems?

Although Consumer Reports loved the electric Niro, they found a few sticking points. As of now, the Kia Niro offers only front-wheel drive. This FWD-only configuration could be seen as a flaw as AWD grows more popular. The rear seats are also said to be set too low.

Aside from those smaller annoyances, the only real downside to the 2022 Kia Niro Electric is that it takes nearly 10 hours to charge with a 204-volt charger.

Despite the long charging time, the 2022 Kia Niro seems to be a strong option for any drivers interested in crossing over into the EV space but for less investment than the trendy Rivians or Teslas.

Concur with the lack of AWD, and also the generally favorable opinion of the car. I was only able to take a typical dealer test drive a couple of years ago, but liked it. It and the e-Golf felt the most instantly right to me of all the BEVs I've driven (around 10 or so) as far as controls, ergonomics and general driving characteristics. It could use a considerably increased FC rate rather than the modest improvement the 2023 gets, but that and the lack of AWD are my only negatives, at least in my limited experience with it.

I'd love to be able to rent one on Turo for a trip to compare it to the Bolt, but despite repeated checking there haven't been any BEV Niros available there, just the occasional PHEV.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.

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