SLC17Leaf
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2021

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

BrockWI wrote: Thu Feb 17, 2022 3:12 pm Yes, if ours did that at 4 bars we would really be in trouble, ours will do that with 0 or 1 bar of temp.
Yeah, it's a major problem here even in a mild winter. When we can't drive on the highway slightly uphill with a reasonable battery temp and high SoC, I'd say the car is failing to perform normally and reasonably. Around here, we simply have to be able to drive on the highway uphill and in cold temps. I can't imagine how bad it will be when we get a true cold snap. I'm shocked that the car can malfunction to this extent, under normal operating conditions, and not generate any type of fault codes or any indication to the service techs that there is a major problem.
dougsoxman
Posts: 1
Joined: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:28 am
Delivery Date: 08 Mar 2022

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

Has anyone had this problem fixed? I have been having this issue all winter and actually had the car totally shut down and come up with "No Power, Stop Safely" and left us stranded on the highway. I have had it at the dealer twice now and they can't reproduce the issue and don't have any path forward to actually fix it. I have videos of it happening several times and also of the last time that it actually shut off since my wife was driving then. Now that it's warming up, it will be even harder to convince them there is an issue but I was hoping someone has had this issue and solved it so I can at least suggest to them what to do.
LeftieBiker
Moderator
Posts: 18822
Joined: Wed May 22, 2013 3:17 am
Delivery Date: 30 Apr 2018
Location: Upstate New York, US

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

First, run LeafSpy Pro on the car. If it shows weak cells, have the dealer run a CVLI test on the car. Use the videos to convince them to do that.
Brilliant Silver 2021 Leaf SV40 W/ Pro Pilot & Protection
2009 Vectrix VX-1 W/18 Leaf modules, & 2 lithium E-bicycles.
BAFX OBDII Dongle
PLEASE don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
SLC17Leaf
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2021

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

So my issue is getting worse. My car is now going into turtle mode and power limited mode at high SoC (50-70%) and with a warm battery (5-6 temp bars). Previously, it was only doing this when the battery was 4 temp bars or less and a SoC of 50% or less. It's only doing this on the highway and uphill, but I turtles every time I drive up Parley's Canyon on I80 East from Salt Lake to Park City, UT. The drive climbs from around 4500ft ASL to 7000ft ASL in about 15 miles. If the battery is colder and a lower SoC, it will turtle on a slight uphill at highway speeds. If it is warmer and a higher SoC, it takes a steeper hill to Turtle. It has yet to set a DTC of any kind related to the drive system, despite my best efforts. I would have been content driving it as is through the warm weather and waiting for another SoH bar to drop (from 9 to 8) but it doesn't look like we're going to be able to do that now that it's happening every time on that drive, even with a warm battery.

My local Nissan Tech plugged in the Nissan Data logger to the OBD2 on three separate occasions and has me drive the car around for a few days trying to catch the data when the car turtles. I've had the car turtle multiple times with the Nissan Data Logger plugged in. The Nissan engineers have requested the data from the tech, to diagnose the problem. The Tech says they're mostly looking for cell deviation. He downloads the data and sends it to the Nissan Engineers. So far they've only come back and asked for more data, having not seen what they're claiming to look for yet.

One of the other four 30Kw leafs the tech is dealing with was turtling in a similar manner at the same point on 80 East up Parley's Canyon. They were able to see the cell voltage deviation on the logger and tried replacing the weak cells. The SoH of that car was also at 9 bars. Replacing the weak cells only made it worse according to the tech, apparently because the voltage deviation was high between the new cells they replaced and the existing with the new cells being higher. So, they ultimately replaced the entire pack with a 40kW.

I've been very happy with the effort our local Nissan Service department has put into trying to resolve this problem. They've definitely been going to bat for us and fighting the resistance from Nissan corporate.

The other thing I noticed today is that the battery temp is climbing faster than what I'd expect (or at least what I remember from before) when driving up hill on the highway. Today I started the drive at 4 temp bars and it climbed to 8 bars by the time I got the the top of the canyon. It was 44F ambient when I left and 40F by the time I got to the top of the canyon. Previously I've only seen 8 temp bars in the summer months or on the rare occasion we've had to Level 3 charge for a while when the battery was already a little warm.

Our tech wants us to drive the car for about a week with the data logger plugged in to catch as much turtle data as possible. His plan is to bombard the Nissan engineers with data. If they don't have a resolution after the engineers review the data, they're' going to elevate the issue to hopefully replace the battery. We've been dealing with this issue since November and there's been a considerable amount of time invested into resolving it. At this point I suspect when you factor in the value of everyones time and loaner cars, Nissan would have some out ahead if they just replaced the battery to begin with.

Our tech mentioned that the last two 40kW batteries he ordered took 2 months to get in. I jokingly (but not really) asked him if he could just order the battery now and by the time it comes in we'd loose another SoH bar. He said it's a huge pain to order a battery from Nissan and they don't list them in their parts system. Apparently there's an involved process and paperwork for a dealer to get a battery from Nissan. Nissan has tight controls on the distribution of the batteries.

We'll see what happens. Hopefully they catch something this time on the data logger. I'll update again when I have more info.
SLC17Leaf
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2021

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

dougsoxman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 6:32 am Has anyone had this problem fixed? I have been having this issue all winter and actually had the car totally shut down and come up with "No Power, Stop Safely" and left us stranded on the highway. I have had it at the dealer twice now and they can't reproduce the issue and don't have any path forward to actually fix it. I have videos of it happening several times and also of the last time that it actually shut off since my wife was driving then. Now that it's warming up, it will be even harder to convince them there is an issue but I was hoping someone has had this issue and solved it so I can at least suggest to them what to do.
Sorry to hear you're in the same boat! Is your car a 30Kw? How many SoH bars do you have? The silver lining for me is that we're going to get a 40Kw battery under warranty one way or another. It's just been a massive pain in the ass this winter and looks like it will continue to be so until the battery is replaced.
dang10010
Posts: 15
Joined: Sun Oct 06, 2019 2:27 pm
Delivery Date: 06 Oct 2019

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

Wow that really stinks, I can't imagine having to go up a mountain in mine.
My 17 did the same thing today, 4 temp bars and it was 45F outside and I started with a full charge so I thought I would be OK.
I was driving on flat highway at about 75 with a good headwind and sure enough turtle time.
A 20 mile drive used up %50 of the battery after the cells stabilized.
The battery is at %69.5 health now and I can only really trust it do my daily commute to work.
I've been to the dealer and no codes= clean bill of health, they did offer to buy it LOL.
2017 Leaf SV 73xxx+ miles located near St. Louis MO
Dropped to 9 health bars late summer 2021.
SLC17Leaf
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2021

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

Nissan finally got the data they were looking for and approved a new 40kW battery for our car. The tech had some trouble downloading the data. The Toughbooks they are using are laughably antiquated and there seem to be frequent updates from Nissan for the diagnostic software as well as the updates for the data logger. We lost a bunch of data because Nissan released updates between when we plugged in the data logger to when the tech went to download the data. The data logger wouldn't communicate with the laptop until it they were both updated and the update on the data logger wiped out the data from my turtle drives. So if you need to go this route with a Nissan service tech, make sure you mention diagnostic software updates on their hardware.

So my Tech went for a drive with me so he could watch the voltage readings real time and make sure it was recording. The car went into limited power when going uphill on the highway but it did not turtle or give a limited power warning. However, we could clearly feel it loosing power. When the Tech looked at the data he saw some voltage deviations that were very close to 1mV. The crazy thing is that this instance, with the Tech riding along, was a very minor "reduced power" incident, when compared to the other instances. So with the major malfunctions with the battery, over the course of the winter, the cell deviation had to be substantially greater than this instance. Certainly well over 1mV. Yet we never saw a DTC over dozens of occurrences of substantial sudden SoC drops and turtles. How a car can malfunction so severely, fail to perform basic functions and be a real safety concern and not have any diagnostic information is quite disturbing to me. In the end, the Tech sent that data to Nissan and called them. He was able to get them to authorize a new battery. Can't say enough good stuff about our local service department in dealing with our case. They really went to bat for us.

Nissan is saying it will take 2-3 months for the new 40kW battery to show up at our dealership, which was expected. It's good this is being dealt with now, because we wouldn't have made it through next winter with the old battery.
SageBrush
Posts: 7299
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

SLC17Leaf wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:35 pm voltage deviations that were very close to 1mV.
More likely 1000 mv, meaning 1 volt
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
SageBrush
Posts: 7299
Joined: Sun Mar 06, 2011 2:28 am
Delivery Date: 13 Feb 2017
Location: NM

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

I've been reading these stories of turtling LEAFs through the years.

I cannot prove my suspicion, but I am reasonably confident in saying that the LEAF DTC algorithm is designed to pick up one or two bad cells in an otherwise good pack of cells. When an even larger number of cells are markedly degraded, Nissan's interpretation is the that the pack has naturally aged and it is not a warranty issue.

I disagree -- I think those cases should be covered under the manufacturing defect warranty if still eligible by miles/time. The first thing to do to change Nissan's stance is to have every affected owner write up a safety complaint to the NHTSA. And getting news publicity would I think be pretty effective. Nissan does not want the LEAF smeared leading up to the Ariya going on sale.
2013 LEAF 'S' Model with QC & rear-view camera
Bought Jan 2017 from N. Cal
Two years in Colorado, now in NM
03/18: 58 Ahr @28k miles. 10/21: 53.4 Ahr @ 40k miles
-----
2018 Tesla Model 3 LR, Delivered 6/2018. Sold 11/2021, awaiting Tesla Model Y
SLC17Leaf
Posts: 17
Joined: Sun Dec 19, 2021 3:16 pm
Delivery Date: 19 Dec 2021

Re: Sudden Turtle Mode in Very Cold Weather

SageBrush wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:51 pm
SLC17Leaf wrote: Tue Apr 26, 2022 12:35 pm voltage deviations that were very close to 1mV.
More likely 1000 mv, meaning 1 volt
Yes, sorry 1V not 1mV.

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