cwerdna
Posts: 12922
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

LeftieBiker wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 2:25 am 200+ mile range is one of those remaining limiting factors that restrict the selection quite a bit. It's a real shame that GM and/or their battery supplier screwed the Bolt up so badly...
Well, it's not like I have a lot of other great choices in a similar price range from a skim of https://insideevs.com/news/534024/bev-e ... ember2021/.

Mazda MX-30? Hard no! Also n/a right now. Mini Cooper EV? No. BMW i3? No. Hyundai Ioniq EV? Range is kinda short and they were hit by https://insideevs.com/news/490950/lg-en ... ona-fires/. See https://www.hyundai.com/content/hyundai ... tation.pdf. Did they switch to another supplier? Dunno but range is short and gen 2 Ioniq EV is a step backwards in DC FCing speed from gen 1: https://insideevs.com/news/381451/hyund ... ing-power/. Seems the current 170 mile EPA range version per https://www.hyundaiusa.com/us/en/vehicl ... pare-specs are 38.3 kWh w/the crap DC FC speeds. It's even worse than my Bolt.

Taycan? e-tron? WAY too much $! e-tron reliability is bad, IIRC. Volvo C40? TIL about it. Seems n/a right now but judging by XC40 reports, it's almost certainly a pass. Mustang Mach-E? Nope. i-Pace? Hell no. Niro EV? Bad CR reliability. ID.4? Too much $, too big, likely bad VW reliability, https://www.vwidtalk.com/forums/volkswagen-id-4.30/ didn't give me warm and fuzzy feelings. Polestar 2? Likely a hard no (Volvo doesn't have good reliability rep and if their other PHEVs or EV s are any indication...) Volvo XC40? No.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
GRA
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

cwerdna, I wasn't able to read the full Niro BEV issues in CR, and the full report is behind a paywall. But the print version only mentioned a motor reliability problem, which would seem to be a much simpler fix, and covered for 10 years even if it does crap out on you. Was there more to the Niro's low r liability rating than the motor?

I presume they're buying the motor from someone else, and if that one doesn't serve they can switch suppliers easily enough and swap the new one in. There shouldn't be any shortage or safety issues there, unlike a battery, so I'd be far more inclined to risk the Niro than say the Kona. Plus you get somewhat faster DCFC than the Bolt.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
cwerdna
Posts: 12922
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
Delivery Date: 28 Jul 2013
Location: SF Bay Area, CA

Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

GRA wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:23 pm cwerdna, I wasn't able to read the full Niro BEV issues in CR, and the full report is behind a paywall. But the print version only mentioned a motor reliability problem, which would seem to be a much simpler fix, and covered for 10 years. Was there more to the Niro's low rating than the motor?

I presume they're buying the motor from someone else, and if that one doesn't serve they can switch suppliers easily enough and swap the new one in. There shouldn't be any shortage or safety issues there.
The paywalled story at https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids ... 176942694/ said "Kia Niro EV owners reported problems such as having to replace a bearing in the electric motor."

I do subscribe to CR online access and now they only have reliability ratings for '19 and '20 is n/a. '19 gets the worst possible icon (it's out of 5) with the red 2 down chevrons. The trouble spots I see include engine major, engine minor, engine cooling, electric system, brakes, and body integrity. Engine major and body integrity both get the lowest mark (red 2 down chevrons) while the others I cited get an orange 1 down chevron. That overall is not good for a '19.

Kona EV DC FCing is faster than Bolt.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
GRA
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

cwerdna wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:32 pm
GRA wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 7:23 pm cwerdna, I wasn't able to read the full Niro BEV issues in CR, and the full report is behind a paywall. But the print version only mentioned a motor reliability problem, which would seem to be a much simpler fix, and covered for 10 years. Was there more to the Niro's low rating than the motor?

I presume they're buying the motor from someone else, and if that one doesn't serve they can switch suppliers easily enough and swap the new one in. There shouldn't be any shortage or safety issues there.
The paywalled story at https://www.consumerreports.org/hybrids ... 176942694/ said "Kia Niro EV owners reported problems such as having to replace a bearing in the electric motor."

I do subscribe to CR online access and now they only have reliability ratings for '19 and '20 is n/a. '19 gets the worst possible icon (it's out of 5) with the red 2 down chevrons. The trouble spots I see include engine major, engine minor, engine cooling, electric system, brakes, and body integrity. Engine major and body integrity both get the lowest mark (red 2 down chevrons) while the others I cited get an orange 1 down chevron. That overall is not good for a '19.

Kona EV DC FCing is faster than Bolt.

Is that for all Niro, or just the BEV? Is CR considering the electric motor "engine major", rather than say "electrical"? IDK just how they're categorizing BEV components vs. ICEs. If not, I'd tend to ignore "engine major "minor" and "cooling" as n/a to the BEV. Body integrity could be an issue, as could brakes, although given regen I'd think that would be less critical.

Re the Kona's FC rate, yes, I know it's the same as the Niro, I was just talking about the latter. Personally I'd probably be more concerned about the Kona for the LG Chem pack, which we know had similar issues to the Bolt, but earlier. Hyundai just wasn't quite as public about replacing them all. Just a matter of where you want to take the risk.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
cwerdna
Posts: 12922
Joined: Fri Jun 03, 2011 4:31 pm
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

GRA wrote: Mon Sep 27, 2021 10:34 pm Is that for all Niro, or just the BEV? Is CR considering the electric motor "engine major", rather than say "electrical"? IDK just how they're categorizing BEV components vs. ICEs. If not, I'd tend to ignore "engine major "minor" and "cooling" as n/a to the BEV. Body integrity could be an issue, as could brakes, although given regen I'd think that would be less critical.
I've checked again and those are definitely the results for the Niro Electric.

Unfortunately, it's how people chose to answer. Categories are at https://www.consumerreports.org/car-rel ... 099917197/. I've seen cars dinged for "electrical problems" almost certainly due to 12 volt batteries dying due to their age and how that issue basically worked it way thru the model years (e.g. a problem one year on say 06 and then a year later, it became a prob on the 07's).

Re: my situation and buyback, for now, since GM's giving precautions (mine has a US-made battery so I'm less worried), I'm parking it outside at night for now to limit how long the car bakes in the sun. Having it out all day == hard on the paint, interior and exterior + big temperature swings.

Unfortunately, leaving it out at night also leaves it vulnerable to break-ins. It's been happening in my neighborhood for years. I noticed post on Nextdoor about thieves checking doors on cars and rummaging thru some of them a few days ago. Some were caught on camera. Sure enough, I confirmed on my footage they came by at 3:55 am that day to check the doors on my Bolt + other cars parked outside. Fortunately, they didn't break any windows on my car or anyone else's that night...

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
GRA
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Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

^^^ Thanks for the clarifications; that's what I thought was included. They need to update their categories to clarify what goes where for PEVs/FCEVs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
cwerdna
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

LOL on FCEVs! In the past, they needed a minimum of 100 per model year of a model to have sufficient data for that model year. I don't think they specify now.

Good luck getting 100 responses for a model year of given model of FCEV in CR. The sales volumes are way too low.

'22 Niro EV
'19 Bolt Premier (bought back by GM)
'13 Leaf SV w/premium (former)
'13 Leaf SV w/QC + LED & premium (lease over)

Please don't PM me with Leaf questions. Just post in the topic that seems most appropriate.
GRA
Posts: 13717
Joined: Mon Sep 19, 2011 1:49 pm
Location: East side of San Francisco Bay

Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

cwerdna wrote: Tue Sep 28, 2021 4:58 pm LOL on FCEVs! In the past, they needed a minimum of 100 per model year of a model to have sufficient data for that model year. I don't think they specify now.

Good luck getting 100 responses for a model year of given model of FCEV in CR. The sales volumes are way too low.

Possibly, although odds are the owners are more likely to be CR members than the general public. As it is, the most recent California report estimated there were just under 8,000 on the road here this year. Of course many are from previous years (I average about one Mirai 1 sighting a day and still see the occasional Clarity FCEV (I've only seen two Mirai 2s and just one Nexo so far), but given the small number of types currently available it's possible there might be enough to meet the threshold. Now that station build-out is finally picking up again, they need more models available, in particular an AWD CUV.

In any case, deciding which parts of an FCEV goes in which category requires a minor amount of work, so they might as well do that along with BEVs.
Guy [I have lots of experience designing/selling off-grid AE systems, some using EVs but don't own one. Local trips are by foot, bike and/or rapid transit].

The 'best' is the enemy of 'good enough'. Copper shot, not Silver bullets.
DaveinOlyWA
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

Niro is the only current consideration for me outside Nissan although as it stands, I will likely just hold onto my plus a year or two. Able to prequalify for 1.99% financing on a 3 year. Payments will rise about $100 a month but its more than doable.

Although reviews are bad, I know two who have one and they both claim the range is better than advertised. I somehow missed my chance to take a ride in one during the local NDEW event a few weeks ago. Got sidetracked and they left a bit earlier than expected. Both came from LEAFs and like the interior build. One did have an issue with something minor like a steering wheel control or something and it took a few months to get the parts but it was fixed and works fine now.
2011 SL; 44,598 mi, 87% SOH. 2013 S; 44,840 mi, 91% SOH. 2016 S30; 29,413 mi, 99% SOH. 2018 S; 25,185 mi, SOH 92.23%. 2019 S Plus; 25,047 mi, 92.12% SOH
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DougWantsALeaf
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Re: Chevrolet Bolt & Bolt EUV

I was originally hoping the Niro was going to come sooner to the midwest. We have owned a few Kias and they have been fantastic values. Our Optima cost just over 12K new in 2004 and was problem free for 10 years before getting the 2013 Leaf. We had a 2007 Sedona until last summer. It also was nearly problem free (warranty covered bushing issue in year one).

But gave up and went to the Plus. The eNiro finally arrived last fall to the midwest.

I don't know how much to believe about the mechanical issues, but believe the range is better. It's battery is larger and for the average driver is modestly more efficienct. A Niro youtuber in Canada also moved from stock to ev01s, but said he saw nearly no difference in efficiency. (Also confirming that Nissan partially hosed the efficiency of the Leaf SV/SL with heavy rims) Niro also has good cargo like the Leaf, which continues to be a big factor in our car purchases.
2019 S Plus (93.3% SOH) & 2019 SV Plus (89.9% SOH) Both Silver
2013 Leaf SV sold 2019 with 11 bars
100 Mile Club Member (Number 87)
Max Miles on 13 Leaf: 120 miles
Max Miles on 19 SV+: 242 Highway miles @ 4.5 miles/kWh

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