Nissan,how could you Screw Up so BADLY

Without cutting and pasting my entire chat, I think I learned the following this morning.

1. The people you chat with work for Nissan, not Maritz.
2. The people you chat with have no path to "escalate" the concerns of a person who wants to complain directly to the company about the decision to fulfill the January and February orders before the Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec. orders.
3. If you ask for the name of a person you can speak with, you will be given the 877 number and told to ask for a supervisor.
4. If you would like to speak with someone at Nissan corporate, there is no person whose name you will be given.
5. No Leafs were damaged by the tsunami. But the earthquake did knock the plant out of commission as electricity became an issue and employees were given time off.

BlueSL said:

Without cutting and pasting my entire chat, I think I learned the following this morning.

1. The people you chat with work for Nissan, not Maritz.
2. The people you chat with have no path to "escalate" the concerns of a person who wants to complain directly to the company about the decision to fulfill the January and February orders before the Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec. orders.
3. If you ask for the name of a person you can speak with, you will be given the 877 number and told to ask for a supervisor.
4. If you would like to speak with someone at Nissan corporate, there is no person whose name you will be given.
5. No Leafs were damaged by the tsunami. But the earthquake did knock the plant out of commission as electricity became an issue and employees were given time off.

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Nice summary and very useful. Thank You!

I'm planning on having a "chat" today... At least I have a good idea of what to expect and when to pursue other channels.

Just had whole post composed and for the second time in two days a forum error lost the post!!

From the "forgotten 36" - my dashboard promises a "2011 LEAF", so I originally thought I'd be able to order by (at least) summer of 2011. In the interim, Nissan has dealt with 2 major issues:

1. The Japanese diversion. In theory, this shouldn't affect me, it should mainly affect roll-out states, because those cars would likely have been delivered to Japan before the forgotten 36 even with no diversion.

2. The tsunami. This will simply knock all deliveries after a certain date back a bit, including my chance to order.

Now I'm not confident of being able to order this year (2011). The Nissan people at the drive electric event seemed to think I wouldn't be able to order until Smyrna comes on-line, but who knows, maybe I'll be pleasantly surprised. My PD is clueless, they originally thought they would sell me a LEAF in December 2010! I don't bother repeatedly asking when my chance will be, because it probably won't change anything. I'll just keep waiting, knowing that I'm a lot closer to owning a mass produced electric car than I have ever been.

I think tier 2 will get to order late this year ( instead of late summer)

rest of the the USA maybe order spring 2012

But I think you guys in Philly will get cars from Oppama.

If an original reservation holder from April 2010 had to wait til Smyrna builds a leaf it would be late 2013 til they get a car

I am just glad I reserved in April 2010

Here's some information I received when I managed to contact customer service by phone:

The "lost" cars does not refer to cars that were lost, but to orders that were lost. Some of the September, October, and early November orders were lost due to a computer glitch. This led to VINs not being assigned, and to January orders being filled before those early orders. I was told that Nissan is on top of this issue now, and this is why dealer demo cars are being re-assigned to individual buyers whose requested configuration matches a dealer demo car. I was also told that this might explain why my owner's portal allowed me to register one VIN, while CS has a different VIN listed for me, though she could not tell which VIN was actually my car. She said she'd send the info to a "team leader" who has access to more information and who would try to figure out where my car really is and when it will arrive, and then get back to me.

This is the most information I've ever been able to get from CS.

CAVEAT: If the above is correct (and she sounded very confident, and knowledgeable) it would be the first correct information I've gotten from the CS line. Knock on wood.

The reference to a computer glitch screwing up so many orders reinforces my opinion that Nissan hired Microsoft to design their software.

daniel said:

The reference to a computer glitch screwing up so many orders reinforces my opinion that Nissan hired Microsoft to design their software.

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Nissan outsourced the process, probably to a low bidder in India. Personally, I've dealt with this type situation before. I've had to fix outsourcer screwups numerous times, not to mention the hidden cost of teaching them about your business. There's and old expression, "Sometimes the cheap is expensive."

BluesL said:

"1. The people you chat with work for Nissan, not Maritz."

call center operators are trained to tell you that, yes they work for Nissan until their contract is up.. mentioning Maritz is a fireable offense. I can tell you some jokes about Dell customer support people in India "Hi my name is Bill"

"2. The people you chat with have no path to "escalate" the concerns of a person who wants to complain directly to the company about the decision to fulfill the January and February orders before the Sept, Oct, Nov and Dec. orders."

Also typical, there is no actual Nissan employee at those call centers, if they give a contact then that defeats the point of them being hired in the first place.. to handle CS calls. They probably dont have a contact in their scripts, the call center supervisor may have one but they will be reluctant to give it out. Eventually those numbers get published in forums like this.

"3. If you ask for the name of a person you can speak with, you will be given the 877 number and told to ask for a supervisor."

You can always ask to talk to their supervisor.. giving out that answer is not very professional in the CS world.

"4. If you would like to speak with someone at Nissan corporate, there is no person whose name you will be given."

They just dont have one in their script, Nissan could have structured their contract different and provided such a contact.. again typically corps that do this dont bother with that.

Dont take it too personally, their job is to calm you down.. and perhaps answer some questions if they can.. they really are not empowered to solve any problems.

OK, here is a chunk of my chat. If Herm is right, Jason is a liar. For Nissan's sake, I am hoping Herm is wrong, because there is only so much disrespect I can take.

John Fiero: OK. Look, I am very angry that Nissan has decided to fulfill orders placed in January and February before my own, placed in December. Do you know why Nissan made this decision.

Jason: As I said there were issues with orders being fulfilled out of order. We are working hard at getting the skipped orders out as fast as possible.

John Fiero: Who at Nissan -- not Maritz -- can I speak to about this?

Jason: The information available is the information I have given you. I do not have a number I can escalate you to as far as a different Nissan source would be concerned.

John Fiero: So I am on my own if I want to speak to a Nissan employee?

Jason: I am a Nissan employee.

Jason: Are you referring to a corporate office?

John Fiero: You don;t work for Maritz?

John Fiero: Yes.

Jason: No, I do not work for Maritz. And as I've said I do not have any numbers to escalate you to.

John Fiero: OK, how about a name and phone number for your supervisor?

Jason: If you would like to speak to a supervisor on the phone you can call us at the 1-877-664-2738 number and request to speak to one..

jcesare said:

daniel said:

The reference to a computer glitch screwing up so many orders reinforces my opinion that Nissan hired Microsoft to design their software.

Click to expand...

Nissan outsourced the process, probably to a low bidder in India. Personally, I've dealt with this type situation before. I've had to fix outsourcer screwups numerous times, not to mention the hidden cost of teaching them about your business. There's and old expression, "Sometimes the cheap is expensive."

Click to expand...

Or as Tom & Ray put it: "It's the stingy man who pays the most."

Herm said:

... their job is to calm you down.. and perhaps answer some questions if they can.. they really are not empowered to solve any problems.

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The woman I spoke with today actually seemed more intelligent and more aware than anyone I've spoken with on the CS line before. Usually they answer all questions with "I don't know." This woman was actually aware of the screw-ups (though she used softer language) and promised to escalate the question to a higher-up.

But for the most part I agree with the statement above.

daniel said:

The woman I spoke with today actually seemed more intelligent and more aware than anyone I've spoken with on the CS line before. Usually they answer all questions with "I don't know." This woman was actually aware of the screw-ups (though she used softer language) and promised to escalate the question to a higher-up.

But for the most part I agree with the statement above.

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Our case was escalated to the supervisor level few weeks ago. They are in constant touch with us. As a matter of fact they call us with an update every day…..maybe the lovely lady is the same one that is working with us. They are also in touch with the field managers at the port. But the bottom line is, even the supervisors cannot re-prioritize your delivery or provide you an ETA. Field managers at the port are in control of that process, and delivering cars in the right order is not a priority assigned to them by Nissan.

My order of 10/29 is in the middle of the time window of "the forgotten fall orders". I viewed with some concern the problem of 2011 orders being filled before the remaining 2010 orders. But there are several things I understand as well:
Nissan is anxious to make this launch a success. They have 20 years of development and billions invested so far, with just 8000 LEAFs produced before this month (week?). That production level and slim profit margin barely pays for coffee or tea stirrers for the executive officers.
The dealers are eager to recoup their investments in advertising, training, and sales operation. They need cars! They need happy customers who will spread the word!
The computer screw-up was perhaps the product of a contracted firm or individual who may never do anything for Nissan again, and who might be long gone. Can't pound any nails into his (her) hands and feet.
The customer service people on the phone or issuing emails on estimated delivery have to take it from both ends. The Nissan people treat them like mushrooms, keeping them in the dark and feeding them bxxlsxxt.
The prospective customers are never satisfied with the level of information that is available.
I have been known to rant and rave on the phone at many types of "professionals" and customer service people, but only when I was sure that they knew better, or were paid to know better and perform better. And I did it only when I had my funds out of their organization first, or I knew they were regulated by state or federal agencies. Such is not the case with the Nissan customer service reps that we can contact.
In my conversations with them, I asked for information, if any, and never said I was unhappy or angry, just mystified. I keep the tone down to a reasonable level. I thank them for any consideration I could get. I have not been given much more than anybody else by doing this, (yet) I think. But I still believe that "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Try it! You might like it.
Gregg
SL+QC white #1597
(it might be at the LB port now)
DB today says week of April 08, 2011 delivery (??)

Well put, Gregg!

Like you, I always speak calmly to the CS people. I tell them I am disappointed, and I tell them that Nissan is creating a lot of bad feelings in the people who were first up to support them. The CS people are paid little and told less. They are hired by Nissan to try to placate us. My anger is against Nissan, not the people on the phone line or chat sessions.

And yet I keep calling, in the hopes that maybe this time they'll be able to tell me where my car is...

I have basically given up on trying to find out anything definitive on delivery date.
I came to that after i got into the "week of window" last week, and before the full week ran out tomorrow, the date jumped to the end of the month.
It is pretty clear that there are hundreds of cars in PORT and that they are doing fixes on them and you are at the mercy of the gods and goddesses there. And also that more cars arrive April 27 from Japan.
What I am told pretty firmly by customer service and the dealer is that my car is in PORT and is among the ones getting the AC makeover.

When it comes out is whimsy.

My last car, prolly sat in a dealer lot for 3-5 months, then I bought it at the end of the model year. This one can sit in the PORT until the dealer calls me.

C-S just informed me that most of the January/February orders who are reporting getting their cars in April went to dealers and bought "orphaned" vehicles.
This doesn't sound likely to me it as it wouldn't explain intermediate dates such as carwings opening up, L2 charger installation dates for those on the EV project list, and the 7-day notification.

The thing i DID believe was... "I'm really not told anything much about what went on"
So we had a nice chat and I'm left none the wiser,.. as expected.

starry said:

In my conversations with them, I asked for information, if any, and never said I was unhappy or angry, just mystified. I keep the tone down to a reasonable level. I thank them for any consideration I could get. I have not been given much more than anybody else by doing this, (yet) I think. But I still believe that "you can catch more flies with honey than vinegar". Try it! You might like it.

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Now that our car is on the dealer lot, I just want to add my $.02 here:

• First Penny - I encourage anyone with a pre-January order that is still in delivery limbo to continue to contact CS on a regular basis (in my case it was via chat about every 48 hours), and
• Second Penny - please follow Gregg and Gary's advice regarding being polite and courteous (which is why I "chatted" rather than "called").

IMHO, being a "squeaky wheel" does seem to pay off. But, I can't imagine that being a jerk about it would help anyone's cause.

Good luck to you all!

There is no way that any of those out-of-order sales were orphans-- they all got delivery dates on their dashboard and there haven't been any confirmed orphans, so if any, they account for very few deliveries.

Beachcliffs said:

IMHO, being a "squeaky wheel" does seem to pay off. But, I can't imagine that being a jerk about it would help anyone's cause.

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+1. I don't think I would have a car right now except for my persistent but calm and reasonable questions about the status of my order in the delivery process, using phone calls, chat and email over a period of weeks, focusing on the unfairness of delivering Jan-Feb. 2011 orders before Sept-Oct. 2010 orders. At first they would not even admit it was happening. Maybe they didn't even know it was. But they know now and have admitted "the mistake," and they went "above and beyond" to make it right in my case. If it makes a difference to you, make sure you voice your concerns. They may not be able to make everyone happy at this point in the process, but if they don't know that it really matters to you, it's likely nothing will be done.

TT

Stoaty said:

daniel said:

The only issue here for me is one of respect. A friend of mine has already canceled his order due to the disrespect that Nissan has shown towards its customers.

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It always surprises me how important this is to some people re: a large corporation in another country. I tend to expect little, and thus am not disappointed. On the other hand, if a local dealer wasn't respectful and didn't do a good job I would change in a heartbeat. Fontana Nissan has been a pleasure to deal with; they have no control over how Nissan corporate does things. Probably Nissan USA gets their marching orders from Japan, where the culture may be quite different. I haven't seen anything to suggest that there will be a problem after the sale, from either the dealers or Nissan itself (witness the Service Announcement for the A/C restart inhibition problem). Not saying one way or another is right or wrong, it just tends to surprise me how different peoples reactions are to this issue.

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The big disappointment is that Nissan's handling of this is so incongruous with the expectations they created.

Hey, they're doing something extraordinary. Ground-breaking. Trying to create a new public perception of personal transportation. A paradigm shift.

Wouldn't you expect that they would be handling EVERY ASPECT of this initial rollout with utmost care and attention to detail to guarantee a fantastic customer experience before, during, and after the sale?

Wouldn't you expect red-carpet treatment for all of the early-adopters who enrolled in the reservation process? You are the most ardent fans they could ever hope for, and potentially fantastic ambassadors for the company and the technology.

Why in the world would you disappoint such a group so greatly? Why would you put risk your reputation by handing over the reins to some inept web designers? Why hasn't Nissan Management purged this mess long ago?

I dropped out quite awhile back when something as simple as email notifications could not be worked out. Sorry, customers who are sticking their necks out do not want to deal with unexplained delays and displays of incompetence. Explained delays and quickly-reversed incompetence are tolerable. Stonewalling and lack of transparency is interpreted as disrespect to those who most enthusiastically supported the LEAF.

So, maybe it's a cultural thing? Seems surprising to me, as my impression of Japanese culture is that honor, respect, and protocol are even more highly prized there than in the USA. Perhaps they are counting on the fact that it is impolite to complain?

I don't know. It just seems sad that Nissan is squandering so much good will. I'm still very much interested in the car and its success. But I believe I will wait until I can simply go to a dealer and purchase one directly, or the rollout process takes a decisive turn for the better.

Two days ago I phoned the CS line. I talked to a very intelligent-sounding and concerned-sounding woman who promised to pass my issue to a "team leader" who "has more access to information" than she has. She promised me that this person would get back to me within 24 hours, or "48 hours at the very latest." Stupid me, I actually thought they'd phone me back. 48 hours have passed. She was located in Ohio and mentioned the 3-hour time difference. So I presume that now (2:45 Pacific time, 5:45 Eastern time) they are closed for the night.

Owner's Portal gives me a vin # of 1201. Dealer says it's in Portland. CS says that's not my car. CS says my order was lost and I've been assigned a different car, but won't tell me the vin of my car. Or where it is. Or when it might get here. Dashboard says "Month of July." That's for a car that supposedly was in Portland. Or not. Maybe the car in Portland is the "lost" car and someone else is getting it now???

If the car in Portland is my car, why would it take three months to fix the no-start issue? If it isn't, why did they tell me it was? If it's not going to take three months, why does my dashboard say that?

Clearly, Nissan has no idea what it's doing. They hired idiots to write the software for the roll-out; they are delaying cars in port for three months to "fix" a problem that only affected a handful of cars; they are delivering cars all out of order in spite of an explicit promise that this would not happen; and they won't tell us sh!t about what's going on.

I honestly wish I'd never heard of this damn car. I'm getting angry to no purpose and I'm starting to lose sleep over it. I am going to try to just forget the damn thing. Maybe the dealer will remember me in 2014 when they are just shipping cars to dealers to sell the old-fashioned way, and maybe he'll give me a call, and maybe by then some other company will have been willing to sell me an electric car and I can tell Nissan to go to hell.

Good bye all. I have no ill feeling toward anyone who's actually gotten a car. I hope you have many trouble-free years of driving. But I'm out of here.

They did not call you back in 24 hours, they have not called me back over three spearate issues as promised and it's been months, you are doing well. So you cancelled your order online?